R211 Discussion Thread

[bobtehpanda]

3 hours ago, NewFlyer 230 said:

I don’t think they are necessarily a waste of money, my biggest gripe with the MTA is that they are not consistent. It always appears that a handful of units will get a particular feature but others don’t. That’s why you still have R46’s running around after all these years with the brown floors that date back to the late 80’s while a majority of units had their floors replaced with the standard black ones found on every other car fleet. 
Their buses are the same way in terms of some get a particular feature while it’s absent in others and it can be seen on fleet of the same age and model. 
What I will say is that Jamaica wasted money putting door floor mats and looped stanchions on the R46’s when their much newer R160s lacked them. If anything they should have made sure all the R160s had them. 

I think it was more about testing. Older equipment is generally used as a "safe" test bed in case the test is a total f**kup.

[subwaycommuter1983]

On 12/29/2021 at 1:20 AM, Detroit Diesel 50G said:

That would be very nice but based on how long the SAS is taken I don't see that happening till atleast 2060 

If people in the Bronx are more proactive and put more political pressure on the MTA and all levels of the government, many subway extensions could be a reality. The #1, #4, #6, and D trains need to be extended past their current terminals in the Bronx by using elevated tracks. Also, the MTA needs to revise phase 3 and phase 4 of the SAS to include an extension of the Q to the Bronx, running on elevated tracks above 3rd Avenue to Fordham Plaza.

I'm pretty sure that it would be much faster and cheaper to build elevated tracks in the Bronx and in the outer boroughs than to dig tunnels in Midtown and Lower Manhattan.

Going back to the r211's, I am hoping for the best. The r46's are breaking down a lot. Fortunately, the r179's are holding strong.

[darkstar8983]

6 hours ago, subwaycommuter1983 said:

If people in the Bronx are more proactive and put more political pressure on the MTA and all levels of the government, many subway extensions could be a reality. The #1, #4, #6, and D trains need to be extended past their current terminals in the Bronx by using elevated tracks. Also, the MTA needs to revise phase 3 and phase 4 of the SAS to include an extension of the Q to the Bronx, running on elevated tracks above 3rd Avenue to Fordham Plaza.

I'm pretty sure that it would be much faster and cheaper to build elevated tracks in the Bronx and in the outer boroughs than to dig tunnels in Midtown and Lower Manhattan.

Going back to the r211's, I am hoping for the best. The r46's are breaking down a lot. Fortunately, the r179's are holding strong.

I’ve also heard that the R179s are running pretty well. Hopefully they’ll be as reliable as the R142s and the ‘s R62s, which still amaze me with their consistently high MDBFs.

[CenSin]

15 hours ago, subwaycommuter1983 said:

The #1, #4

If the bus routes are any indication, the most straightforward extension of the would put it far from optimal coverage. The local buses serving the area run along Riverdale Avenue, not Broadway.

The does not look extendable to Woodlawn without cutting through the cemetery or making a sharp detour.

Best to leave those two alone.

[Joyjliradio]

 

[BreeddekalbL]

anymore deliveries coming soon?

[Vulturious]

43 minutes ago, BreeddekalbL said:

anymore deliveries coming soon?

Pretty sure there aren't going to be any deliveries until the pilot test passes the 30 day revenue test service. I wouldn't expect any R211's coming until maybe somewhere around the fall or winter of this year.

[trainfan22]

Isn't the pliot set for SIR due in the summer of this year? I'm more excited for the SIR 211s than the subway ones lol. Curious to see if they have a FIND or an strip map, plus cab signals in a subway car is pretty cool. 

 

 

I wonder if the cab signals will be put into the TOD screen or will it be separate. Hopefully it won't take a year of testing for the SIR R211 to hit service, also I have a feeling they have a lot of single tracking G.Os to make track space to test these cars.

[Around the Horn]

54 minutes ago, trainfan22 said:

Isn't the pliot set for SIR due in the summer of this year? I'm more excited for the SIR 211s than the subway ones lol. Curious to see if they have a FIND or an strip map, plus cab signals in a subway car is pretty cool.

August, last I heard.

Also seems as if they've shifted to burn in tests, 4060 was spotted today with the big red weights inside.

[Mysterious2train]

3 hours ago, BreeddekalbL said:

anymore deliveries coming soon?

To add on to what Around the Horn said, as of the last update to the MTA board committees back in June 2021, the 20 R211T cars (open gangway) are scheduled to arrive in June of this year, and the next set of 10 R211A cars (a.k.a. the beginning of the actual production order) is scheduled to arrive in September. 

[Joyjliradio]

 

[subwaycommuter1983]

On 2/7/2022 at 10:13 PM, Mysterious2train said:

To add on to what Around the Horn said, as of the last update to the MTA board committees back in June 2021, the 20 R211T cars (open gangway) are scheduled to arrive in June of this year, and the next set of 10 R211A cars (a.k.a. the beginning of the actual production order) is scheduled to arrive in September. 

Thanks for the update. I guess the testing process for the pilot train has been really smooth.

[bulk88]

On 2/7/2022 at 7:12 PM, trainfan22 said:

I wonder if the cab signals will be put into the TOD screen or will it be separate. Hopefully it won't take a year of testing for the SIR R211 to hit service, also I have a feeling they have a lot of single tracking G.Os to make track space to test these cars.

SIR cab signals will be on the left screen just like CBTC is. Also the contract requires that SIR R211s have mounts for trip cocks to be tested on the Rockaway flats.

[trainfan22]

7 hours ago, bulk88 said:

SIR cab signals will be on the left screen just like CBTC is. Also the contract requires that SIR R211s have mounts for trip cocks to be tested on the Rockaway flats.

Thanks for the info.  Interesting that the SIR units will test on NYCT trackage. 

[Around the Horn]

To add on to the previous post, it would not surprise me if the cab signal screen on the R211S looked similar to the standard screen design used in Europe:

[QM1to6Ave]

I was just reading that the R211s will have wifi installed; is that correct? THat could be a real game changer to allow for calling over wifi for emergencies, etc. ANd being able to check your email

[CenSin]

8 hours ago, QM1to6Ave said:

I was just reading that the R211s will have wifi installed; is that correct? THat could be a real game changer to allow for calling over wifi for emergencies, etc. ANd being able to check your email

You could already do that in stations and while not in tunnels. The real game changer is not having to lose connectivity while between stations or transitioning to a tunnel segment. I’m sure the rest of you know the experience: web page is loading while the tunnel mouth is looming ahead. Will the page load before the signal goes dark?

[rbrome]

11 hours ago, QM1to6Ave said:

I was just reading that the R211s will have wifi installed; is that correct? THat could be a real game changer to allow for calling over wifi for emergencies, etc. ANd being able to check your email

Supposedly, although I'm not sure what the point is. The train still needs some way to connect to the Internet, which requires some kind of WiFi or cellular in the tunnels. That would be a massive separate project that we would have heard more about if it were happening any time soon. The MTA should do that, but when they do, you'd be able to get service directly with your phone without connecting to the train. Honestly I see zero point in putting any kind of WiFi in the trains themselves; it's completely unnecessary and only complicates things. It's the tunnels where we need wireless service, not the trains. 

And forget about Wi-Fi; cellular is easier for most people because it just works, instead of having to seek out and connect to a specific Wi-Fi -network (and risk connecting to a fake one that's trying to steal your info.) 

[QM1to6Ave]

4 hours ago, CenSin said:

You could already do that in stations and while not in tunnels. The real game changer is not having to lose connectivity while between stations or transitioning to a tunnel segment. I’m sure the rest of you know the experience: web page is loading while the tunnel mouth is looming ahead. Will the page load before the signal goes dark?

Ha! Yeah, I'm quite familiar with that experience

 

1 hour ago, rbrome said:

Supposedly, although I'm not sure what the point is. The train still needs some way to connect to the Internet, which requires some kind of WiFi or cellular in the tunnels. That would be a massive separate project that we would have heard more about if it were happening any time soon. The MTA should do that, but when they do, you'd be able to get service directly with your phone without connecting to the train. Honestly I see zero point in putting any kind of WiFi in the trains themselves; it's completely unnecessary and only complicates things. It's the tunnels where we need wireless service, not the trains. 

And forget about Wi-Fi; cellular is easier for most people because it just works, instead of having to seek out and connect to a specific Wi-Fi -network (and risk connecting to a fake one that's trying to steal your info.) 

When I read that, I assumed they meant that they were also adding in some sort of antenna/signal booster in the tunnels for wifi access in the tunnels. Otherwise, I agree, it's not especially useful to have wifi on the train. 

[Lex]

11 hours ago, rbrome said:

Supposedly, although I'm not sure what the point is. The train still needs some way to connect to the Internet, which requires some kind of WiFi or cellular in the tunnels. That would be a massive separate project that we would have heard more about if it were happening any time soon. The MTA should do that, but when they do, you'd be able to get service directly with your phone without connecting to the train. Honestly I see zero point in putting any kind of WiFi in the trains themselves; it's completely unnecessary and only complicates things. It's the tunnels where we need wireless service, not the trains. 

And forget about Wi-Fi; cellular is easier for most people because it just works, instead of having to seek out and connect to a specific Wi-Fi -network (and risk connecting to a fake one that's trying to steal your info.) 

Not only are cellular connections more taxing on the battery, but not everyone has a device that can connect to them.

[CenSin]

10 hours ago, Lex said:

but not everyone has a device that can connect to them.

When I am using my laptop on the train

[Vulturious]

12 hours ago, Lex said:

Not only are cellular connections more taxing on the battery, but not everyone has a device that can connect to them.

Indeed, there are plenty of people that do not have unlimited internet, let alone unlimited fast internet. Especially depends on the plan they're paying for, a lot of people are limited on how much fast internet they can use. Once that is up, internet is extremely slow. I don't think I can exaggerate that enough.

[rbrome]

On 3/29/2022 at 12:33 PM, QM1to6Ave said:

When I read that, I assumed they meant that they were also adding in some sort of antenna/signal booster in the tunnels for wifi access in the tunnels. Otherwise, I agree, it's not especially useful to have wifi on the train. 

Getting a good signal into all (or even most) of the tunnels is going to be a massive project. Again, I think we would have heard something by now if that was coming soon. 

 

On 3/29/2022 at 10:47 PM, Lex said:

Not only are cellular connections more taxing on the battery, ...

This is true in many cases, but it's not necessarily true underground. Wi-Fi is, by design, relatively short-distance, and therefore your device never has to use very much power to reach the network. But cellular signal sometimes have to travel miles (no so much in the city, but still, further than Wi-Fi.) It uses more power to generate a signal that will go that far. But to save battery life, cellular devices are constantly adjusting their power output to be just enough to reach as far as they need to. So when you're underground in the subway, the cellular signal is only going the same distance as a Wi-Fi signal, and therefore should be using a roughly similar amount of power. 

 

On 3/30/2022 at 9:43 AM, CenSin said:

When I am using my laptop on the train

I am always surprised by how many people I see doing this, which is to say a number higher than zero. But still, it's not very many people, especially compared to the masses on their phones the whole trip. I'm not sure it's enough people for the MTA to make an effort to cater specifically to that group. But also... 

 

On 3/30/2022 at 11:10 AM, Vulturious said:

Indeed, there are plenty of people that do not have unlimited internet, let alone unlimited fast internet. Especially depends on the plan they're paying for, a lot of people are limited on how much fast internet they can use. Once that is up, internet is extremely slow. I don't think I can exaggerate that enough.

This is a very good point, and an important issue of equity. But whenever the MTA does bring wireless to the tunnels, I expect them to do it the same way they did for the stations: both cellular and Wi-Fi. If you're going to the (massive, costly) effort to run fiber to hundreds (thousands?) of physical antenna locations, you might as well offer both technologies, considering the relatively small incremental expense. The MTA and Transit Wireless were smart to do that with the stations, and I can't think of any reason they would do the tunnels any differently. 

Edited March 31, 2022 by rbrome

[BreeddekalbL]

Are we sure we still want to do gangways after what happened today?

[Vulturious]

58 minutes ago, BreeddekalbL said:

Are we sure we still want to do gangways after what happened today?

Good question. I mean it happened inside the train with people trapped in one car. Smoke grenade went off inside the car as well.