R211 Discussion Thread

[Fresh Pond]

Jeez I've missed a lot lol

[Calvin]

On 6/7/2022 at 12:46 AM, Around the Horn said:

It's not a question of "spoiling" workers.

They had additional workers stationed at terminals whose job was specifically changing rollsigns to make sure that they were correct. Those positions were axed in the 2010 budget cuts and never came back, hence its now a problem.

They actually had part during the rush hours now, Astoria-Ditmars. AM and PM, there will be TA workers on platform duty from left and right to make sure the signs are properly displayed. What isn't included are the  to/from 96 St. They mainly leave it as a  on one of the ends as a tripper that gets changed back at Stillwell Av. 

Edited June 11, 2022 by Calvin

[Storm]

On 6/11/2022 at 2:00 AM, Calvin said:

They actually had part during the rush hours now, Astoria-Ditmars. AM and PM, there will be TA workers on platform duty from left and right to make sure the signs are properly displayed. What isn't included are the  to/from 96 St. They mainly leave it as a  on one of the ends as a tripper that gets changed back at Stillwell Av. 

Ah. That makes more sense.

Recently, I’ve learned that broadway might not be able to handle 15 TPH (what I propose when we axe the  ). I feel like broadway should either receive CBTC or it should receive a switches upgrade. My take. Carry on.

[NASSAU]

On 11/16/2015 at 7:24 AM, Union Tpke said:

that is great! 

Quote

 

 

[NASSAU]

2 minutes ago, Storm said:

Ah. That makes more sense.

Recently, I’ve learned that broadway might not be able to handle 15 TPH (what I propose when we axe the  ). I feel like broadway should either receive CBTC or it should receive a switches upgrade. My take. Carry on.

 

[LTA1992]

On 6/14/2022 at 10:16 PM, Storm said:

Ah. That makes more sense.

Recently, I’ve learned that broadway might not be able to handle 15 TPH (what I propose when we axe the  ). I feel like broadway should either receive CBTC or it should receive a switches upgrade. My take. Carry on.

It's not a matter of if, but when. Broadway is probably the only trunk that would see real improvements with CBTC, moreso if done around the same time as 6th Avenue and 4th Avenue (iirc, Brighton, and maybe Astoria, are in this decade's plans).

[subwaycommuter1983]

21 hours ago, LTA1992 said:

It's not a matter of if, but when. Broadway is probably the only trunk that would see real improvements with CBTC, moreso if done around the same time as 6th Avenue and 4th Avenue (iirc, Brighton, and maybe Astoria, are in this decade's plans).

I agree. Broadway has one of the worst train frequencies in the system. Even worse than 8th Avenue.

I am really glad that the MTA is giving some love and much needed TLC to the B division with the r211's and CBTC.

[Vulturious]

I'm not sure, but the Pilot Test could still be on schedule to run in the summer. It's a shame they pushed back everything else again.

[GojiMet86]

The open gangway R211T is complete:

 

[MHV9218]

10 hours ago, GojiMet86 said:

The open gangway R211T is complete:

[Pics]

 

This really is going to seem like such a no-brainer when we consider the endless number of passenger injuries over the years, and the fact that we gave up the operational flexibility of single, Protestant, and eventually Catholic-married sets so many years ago. When you have modern consists like the 188s that comprise so many B- and C-cars, really becomes silly to have the safety risk of chain-link car gangways.

Edited June 25, 2022 by MHV9218

[trainfan22]

According to an MTA document posted elsewhere, the R211 might not hit revenue service until the fall 

 

 

TA is budgeting to extend the R46 fleet service life

 

The pilot set testing phase being extended a couple months must mean they having a lot of teething issues. I'm sure they will be sorted out and the cars will be fine in the long run.

 

Also why does the SI R211s need to test for a year after the R211A already tested for a year+? Other than the cab signals isn't it pretty much the same car? 

[nightmare402]

15 minutes ago, trainfan22 said:

According to an MTA document posted elsewhere, the R211 might not hit revenue service until the fall 

 

 

TA is budgeting to extend the R46 fleet service life

 

The pilot set testing phase being extended a couple months must mean they having a lot of teething issues. I'm sure they will be sorted out and the cars will be fine in the long run.

 

Also why does the SI R211s need to test for a year after the R211A already tested for a year+? Other than the cab signals isn't it pretty much the same car? 

welp. when the 46's start dying they gonna wish they kept the 32's

[trainfan22]

7 minutes ago, nightmare402 said:

welp. when the 46's start dying they gonna wish they kept the 32's

The R32s were worst mechanically than the R46 at the time of the R32s retirement. The R46 MDBF still hasn't dipped to as low as to what the R32 MDBF was...

[R32 3838]

6 hours ago, trainfan22 said:

The R32s were worst mechanically than the R46 at the time of the R32s retirement. The R46 MDBF still hasn't dipped to as low as to what the R32 MDBF was...

 

No the R46s are becoming just as bad as the R32s. Again I rode one on the yesterday and the day before, They don't run the same anymore. Even T/Os are starting to complain about em much more now vs a few years back. hence the reason some people bring up the R32s. When you have low spare factor and run these on the lines as well as the 24/7, It becomes a problem.

 

As i said before, Making the decision to retire the R32s in late 2021 was a dumb idea. Should have just kept them in storage for emergencies only like before until the first R211 hits service and passes the 30 day test.

 

The R46s aren't the only issue, The SIRT R44s are another problem. Those Bodies are beyond shot and are starting to rot even more. we won't see a full replacement until 2024 which is bad alone. 

 

People always think everything is fine, Just like in 2009 when i warned people about the R44s and they ended up retiring them because of body rot.

 

Spare factor is a huge issue and when your newest subway cars are coming in slow, It becomes a bigger problem.

 

And I said this before last year, Supply issues and man power are going to be the biggest issues for these cars and the fact this will delay 8th ave CBTC is also going to be a major issue.

 

They should have just kept the R32s restricted to   service only and have the run more R179s to bump more R46s to CIY to increase their spare factor. This would have kept them barely reliable but would have worked just like with the R42s.

 

And this is why the R46s should be on the instead of the , Its obvious that by putting them on the The reliability of the R46s would be much better than it is now.

[darkstar8983]

1 hour ago, R32 3838 said:

 

No the R46s are becoming just as bad as the R32s. Again I rode one on the yesterday and the day before, They don't run the same anymore. Even T/Os are starting to complain about em much more now vs a few years back. hence the reason some people bring up the R32s. When you have low spare factor and run these on the lines as well as the 24/7, It becomes a problem.

 

As i said before, Making the decision to retire the R32s in late 2021 was a dumb idea. Should have just kept them in storage for emergencies only like before until the first R211 hits service and passes the 30 day test.

 

The R46s aren't the only issue, The SIRT R44s are another problem. Those Bodies are beyond shot and are starting to rot even more. we won't see a full replacement until 2024 which is bad alone. 

 

People always think everything is fine, Just like in 2009 when i warned people about the R44s and they ended up retiring them because of body rot.

 

Spare factor is a huge issue and when your newest subway cars are coming in slow, It becomes a bigger problem.

 

And I said this before last year, Supply issues and man power are going to be the biggest issues for these cars and the fact this will delay 8th ave CBTC is also going to be a major issue.

 

They should have just kept the R32s restricted to   service only and have the run more R179s to bump more R46s to CIY to increase their spare factor. This would have kept them barely reliable but would have worked just like with the R42s.

 

And this is why the R46s should be on the instead of the , Its obvious that by putting them on the The reliability of the R46s would be much better than it is now.

I agree with a lot of these points. 
train running the R32s

 trains in the interim getting more R179s

R46s to the weekday .

The R46s would have been even better just staying in Jamaica and yes, delaying CBTC until the R211s arrived but in the back of everyone’s minds, we knew we would end up in this exact situation where the R46s just can’t hold down service reliably anymore, especially on three full-time lines full-time. Before, it ran on two full time lines, and one daytime line, but one of the  full-time lines used its R46s only weekday rush hours, and the daytime line gave many of its R46s a rest weekends. As for the third line, that line had R32 cars to fill in rush hours in a pinch, along with R179 cars, meaning that not as many R46s were needed.

 

I’ve said this before but when you have a low spare factor AND the routes in question run more or less the same headways all day, you’re asking for trouble.

The  and  run more or less the same level of daytime service rush hours, middays, and early evenings, meaning that whichever trains are in service in the morning have to stay in service thru thru the rest of the day. This means that those cars get no shop time unless they break down in service along the line. Many R46s I’ve seen on the  now have two cars with the orange indicator lights that might indicate dead motor or some other maintenance related issue per train. We’re headed towards a point where the R46s are going to fail en-masse again, and spare cars will be needed to just make service. Remember that this happened near Christmas 2020, and the Jamaica R160s had to provide service to the  for those days and the  service was reduced to make it happen.

 

Yes the  has 50% R179s and the  on paper has 50% R68s, but now you’re burdening those fleets with having to run all the time and lowering their MDBFs, similar to CI’s Former R160s (on paper, R46s were on the  and  while the  was R68 + R160). The solution to this is to make sure the spare factor is increased and schedule train trips so that trainsets that ran overnight go to the yard following AM rush hour, and that trains that ran middays, go out of service in the evening.

[R32 3838]

2 minutes ago, darkstar8983 said:

I agree with a lot of these points. 
train running the R32s

 trains in the interim getting more R179s

R46s to the weekday .

The R46s would have been even better just staying in Jamaica and yes, delaying CBTC until the R211s arrived but in the back of everyone’s minds, we knew we would end up in this exact situation where the R46s just can’t hold down service reliably anymore, especially on three full-time lines full-time. Before, it ran on two full time lines, and one daytime line, but one of the  full-time lines used its R46s only weekday rush hours, and the daytime line gave many of its R46s a rest weekends. As for the third line, that line had R32 cars to fill in rush hours in a pinch, along with R179 cars, meaning that not as many R46s were needed.

 

I’ve said this before but when you have a low spare factor AND the routes in question run more or less the same headways all day, you’re asking for trouble.

The  and  run more or less the same level of daytime service rush hours, middays, and early evenings, meaning that whichever trains are in service in the morning have to stay in service thru thru the rest of the day. This means that those cars get no shop time unless they break down in service along the line. Many R46s I’ve seen on the  now have two cars with the orange indicator lights that might indicate dead motor or some other maintenance related issue per train. We’re headed towards a point where the R46s are going to fail en-masse again, and spare cars will be needed to just make service. Remember that this happened near Christmas 2020, and the Jamaica R160s had to provide service to the  for those days and the  service was reduced to make it happen.

 

Yes the  has 50% R179s and the  on paper has 50% R68s, but now you’re burdening those fleets with having to run all the time and lowering their MDBFs, similar to CI’s Former R160s (on paper, R46s were on the  and  while the  was R68 + R160). The solution to this is to make sure the spare factor is increased and schedule train trips so that trainsets that ran overnight go to the yard following AM rush hour, and that trains that ran middays, go out of service in the evening.

 

 

CBTC was just about done on Queens blvd around so they had to transfer the R46s starting in late 2019, Delaying CBTC on QB wouldn't had made sense.

 

Half the time the orange indicator on the R46s don't even work, There were times when R46s had a total of 3 dead motors on one train. This has been the case for both the and lines.

 

People try to deny it because they look at MDBF all the time when that can also be wrong in a lot of cases. But their reliability is really starting to really tank. Before the R32s were removed from service, The R46s were not bad at all with a few exceptions. Its when they took the spares off the   and threw them on the is when they started having issues plus having them at Coney added to the issues. The original plan was for the R46s to be on the lines but they changed it to the lines instead on top of getting some R46s (6 sets from pitkin) as the R32s would have taken their place on the hence the projected 2022 retirement date as the expected the R211s to start running in 2021 until the pandemic hit and plans changed.

 

 

 

 

[subwaycommuter1983]

11 hours ago, R32 3838 said:

 

No the R46s are becoming just as bad as the R32s. Again I rode one on the yesterday and the day before, They don't run the same anymore. Even T/Os are starting to complain about em much more now vs a few years back. hence the reason some people bring up the R32s. When you have low spare factor and run these on the lines as well as the 24/7, It becomes a problem.

 

As i said before, Making the decision to retire the R32s in late 2021 was a dumb idea. Should have just kept them in storage for emergencies only like before until the first R211 hits service and passes the 30 day test.

 

The R46s aren't the only issue, The SIRT R44s are another problem. Those Bodies are beyond shot and are starting to rot even more. we won't see a full replacement until 2024 which is bad alone. 

 

People always think everything is fine, Just like in 2009 when i warned people about the R44s and they ended up retiring them because of body rot.

 

Spare factor is a huge issue and when your newest subway cars are coming in slow, It becomes a bigger problem.

 

And I said this before last year, Supply issues and man power are going to be the biggest issues for these cars and the fact this will delay 8th ave CBTC is also going to be a major issue.

 

They should have just kept the R32s restricted to   service only and have the run more R179s to bump more R46s to CIY to increase their spare factor. This would have kept them barely reliable but would have worked just like with the R42s.

 

And this is why the R46s should be on the instead of the , Its obvious that by putting them on the The reliability of the R46s would be much better than it is now.

The B can't run r46's because Concourse can't handle two different fleets.

[Amiri the subway guy]

 Hey everyone made a new forum if y’all wanna talk about older fleet. I’m made a blog about the mistakes with the R160s  Delivery   

 

[trainfan22]

13 hours ago, R32 3838 said:

 

No the R46s are becoming just as bad as the R32s. Again I rode one on the yesterday and the day before, They don't run the same anymore. Even T/Os are starting to complain about em much more now vs a few years back. hence the reason some people bring up the R32s. When you have low spare factor and run these on the lines as well as the 24/7, It becomes a problem.

 

As i said before, Making the decision to retire the R32s in late 2021 was a dumb idea. Should have just kept them in storage for emergencies only like before until the first R211 hits service and passes the 30 day test.

 

The R46s aren't the only issue, The SIRT R44s are another problem. Those Bodies are beyond shot and are starting to rot even more. we won't see a full replacement until 2024 which is bad alone. 

 

People always think everything is fine, Just like in 2009 when i warned people about the R44s and they ended up retiring them because of body rot.

 

Spare factor is a huge issue and when your newest subway cars are coming in slow, It becomes a bigger problem.

 

And I said this before last year, Supply issues and man power are going to be the biggest issues for these cars and the fact this will delay 8th ave CBTC is also going to be a major issue.

 

They should have just kept the R32s restricted to   service only and have the run more R179s to bump more R46s to CIY to increase their spare factor. This would have kept them barely reliable but would have worked just like with the R42s.

 

And this is why the R46s should be on the instead of the , Its obvious that by putting them on the The reliability of the R46s would be much better than it is now.

So I'm supposed take your word for it, a random rider that the R46 are just as bad as the R32s over FACTUAL MDBF stats? 

 

 

You may believe that the R46s are as bad as the 32s, you're entitled to your opinion, but that's just what you think, that doesn't make it true. The ones at Pikin are fine, it's only MINOR issues with the CI units. 

 

 

These anti R46s posts are just railfans being over dramatic. The cars are still providing reliable service considering their age and the lines they run on.

 

The SI R44s are in progress of being SMS, I'm sure CI overhaul shop has an band aid solution to keep the SI R44s road worthy until 2024. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[R32 3838]

14 minutes ago, trainfan22 said:

So I'm supposed take your word for it, a random rider that the R46 are just as bad as the R32s over FACTUAL MDBF stats? 

 

 

You may believe that the R46s are as bad as the 32s, you're entitled to your opinion, but that's just what you think, that doesn't make it true. The ones at Pikin are fine, it's only MINOR issues with the CI units. 

 

 

These anti R46s posts are just railfans being over dramatic. The cars are still providing reliable service considering their age and the lines they run on.

 

The SI R44s are in progress of being SMS, I'm sure CI overhaul shop has an band aid solution to keep the SI R44s road worthy until 2024. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Theres proof of R46s being taken OOS for issues. The R211 Protection train which was an R46 died to the point they had to use an R42 at one time.

 

That's not being Over dramatic, Its a fact. They are the oldest fleet now, TA isn't going to give a shit. CIY don't give a shit because they know theirs will be going at some point. 

 

Train Operators who are known to like the r46s are now complaining about them having multiple dead motors. The pitkin ones are becoming just as un reliable as the CI ones.

 

Thats not being Over dramatic

You can do so much to a subway car that is known to have body rot and bad frames. You can't just put a band aid on bad frames. Those SI R44s are shot and have been rotting for the past 12 years.

 

 

Also all the R211 info is in this document starting from page 28

 

https://new.mta.info/document/89781

 

Edited June 26, 2022 by R32 3838

[Storm]

2 hours ago, R32 3838 said:

 

 

Theres proof of R46s being taken OOS for issues. The R211 Protection train which was an R46 died to the point they had to use an R42 at one time.

 

That's not being Over dramatic, Its a fact. They are the oldest fleet now, TA isn't going to give a shit. CIY don't give a shit because they know theirs will be going at some point. 

 

Train Operators who are known to like the r46s are now complaining about them having multiple dead motors. The pitkin ones are becoming just as un reliable as the CI ones.

 

Thats not being Over dramatic

You can do so much to a subway car that is known to have body rot and bad frames. You can't just put a band aid on bad frames. Those SI R44s are shot and have been rotting for the past 12 years.

 

 

Also all the R211 info is in this document starting from page 28

 

https://new.mta.info/document/89781

 

Recently, I’ve seen multiple dead motors on different sets of r46s on the . This is seriously a problem and by the time coney gets new cars, service will have had to be cut down dramatically because of mass car shortage. 

The Broadway lines () are now at very high risk. Their trains are falling apart, and they’ll give in and collapse at any moment now. A car shortage is ahead. 

Also, to all of you railfans & enthusiasts, new cars will be given to the lines that currently have R46s, first. Whether it’s R68s, R160s, or R211s. People are not understanding this.

On a side note, this is the order of which lines will get their cars replaced. (NOT fleet assignments).

1. - Base Order

2. - 50% of Option 1

3. Fleet expansion-  - 50% of Option 1

Unconfirmed

4. Fleet expansion- - Option Order 2

[R68ACTrain]

3 hours ago, trainfan22 said:

So I'm supposed take your word for it, a random rider that the R46 are just as bad as the R32s over FACTUAL MDBF stats? 

 

 

You may believe that the R46s are as bad as the 32s, you're entitled to your opinion, but that's just what you think, that doesn't make it true. The ones at Pikin are fine, it's only MINOR issues with the CI units. 

 

 

These anti R46s posts are just railfans being over dramatic. The cars are still providing reliable service considering their age and the lines they run on.

 

The SI R44s are in progress of being SMS, I'm sure CI overhaul shop has an band aid solution to keep the SI R44s road worthy until 2024. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/941484954817286194/986749821522161694/received_778165213337927.mp4 Yup, the R46s at Pitkin are definitely fine.

[trainfan22]

1 hour ago, R68ACTrain said:

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/941484954817286194/986749821522161694/received_778165213337927.mp4 Yup, the R46s at Pitkin are definitely fine.

Trains break down sometimes, I did NOT say they didn't break down at all. Corona maintained the R62A well when they had them and one got an brake pipe rupture and got stuck in the under water tube, things happen.

 

 

So if I posted a video of an R160 with some random mechanical problem you would think the entire fleet is falling apart? 

 

 

I seen a railfan on youtube claim that Pikin maintains the R179 poorly cause of a few messed up pixels in the FIND, just absurd.

[R32 3838]

10 hours ago, Storm said:

Recently, I’ve seen multiple dead motors on different sets of r46s on the . This is seriously a problem and by the time coney gets new cars, service will have had to be cut down dramatically because of mass car shortage. 

The Broadway lines () are now at very high risk. Their trains are falling apart, and they’ll give in and collapse at any moment now. A car shortage is ahead. 

Also, to all of you railfans & enthusiasts, new cars will be given to the lines that currently have R46s, first. Whether it’s R68s, R160s, or R211s. People are not understanding this.

On a side note, this is the order of which lines will get their cars replaced. (NOT fleet assignments).

1. - Base Order

2. - 50% of Option 1

3. Fleet expansion-  - 50% of Option 1

Unconfirmed

4. Fleet expansion- - Option Order 2

 

 

Its not that bad to the point they would cave in. They just have mostly mechanical issues that CAN be fixed but they barely have the time to get to everything due to the fact they need to make service. 

 

Again you are pushing hard for Coney to get R211s when they are not the priority right now.

 

 

10 hours ago, R68ACTrain said:

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/941484954817286194/986749821522161694/received_778165213337927.mp4 Yup, the R46s at Pitkin are definitely fine.

 

Between this and the one that caught fire a few months back. But non of these guys see to get that. And I'm not R46 hater, But I want these fans to keep that same energy that they had for the R32s for the past 12 years for these too. Once that subway car fleet is the oldest in the system, They do not care for it.

[Storm]

5 minutes ago, R32 3838 said:

 

 

Its not that bad to the point they would cave in. They just have mostly mechanical issues that CAN be fixed but they barely have the time to get to everything due to the fact they need to make service. 

 

Again you are pushing hard for Coney to get R211s when they are not the priority right now.

 

 

 

Between this and the one that caught fire a few months back. But non of these guys see to get that. And I'm not R46 hater, But I want these fans to keep that same energy that they had for the R32s for the past 12 years for these too. Once that subway car fleet is the oldest in the system, They do not care for it.

If you saw what I said, I said coney would get new cars, new meaning NOT The R46.