BrooklynIRT Posted August 17, 2012 Share #326 Posted August 17, 2012 (edited) I also think that this is a bad idea because I don't see the point in nearly doubling Nostrand Av service just because some trains are delayed. You might think differently if you had to wait for a on the weekend on a regular basis Additionally, having the run a completely different route in Brooklyn on the weekends will confuse the heck out of riders. My solution: have the dispatcher extend a train to Flatbush Av to fill the gap whenever a train is delayed. SIMPLE. Or just send a down, but it might be a pain to get it back to Utica for its next northbound trip Honestly I think this is just another example of "My line has _____ problem, so let's extend the __ train to provide service." People sometimes neglect the fact that it's possible to overserve certain lines and be left with empty trains I know over-serving a line is an issue, but MTA tends not to like performing quick fixes, especially on the weekends. It is as if it is all or nothing: Either let riders twist in the wind whenever their line screws up, or permanently change a service pattern somehow. On the weekends, sending one train down a line that has a gap in service is almost unheard of unless the gap is like more than a half hour, and even then I bet they would do everything in their power not to address it unless trains became dangerously overcrowded due to the service gap 148/145 riders would lose service, but they are closer to other lines than Nostrand Ave riders and those are two stops vs. six Nostrand stops (President does not count for all intents and purposes since it is right next to Nost/EP) that would have better service I understand the thing about flooding one line with service, but there should be a way to mitigate the effects of the bunching of the weekend Edited August 17, 2012 by BrooklynIRT 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trainmaster5 Posted August 17, 2012 Share #327 Posted August 17, 2012 This is all discounting recovery periods and the reason for this proposal is to improve weekend service on the Nostrand Ave subway, particularly those times that the does not show up for almost 20 minutes, which is something I have noticed on several occasions. The stations along Eastern Pkwy and Livonia east of Franklin would also benefit, but 148 St-Lenox and 145 St along with the stops from 135 St to Franklin Ave would lose out (one less train per hour). Although, the are not all that crowded on the weekends, especially the 64 minutes = scheduled one-way running time for the weekend , 128 minutes, round-trip, assuming no recovery time 65 minutes = scheduled one-way running time for the weekend , 130 minutes, round-trip, assuming no recovery time from 148 to Flatbush every 15 minutes instead of 12: Rerouting it to Flatbush means a 5-minute decrease in running time in each direction, 10-minute decrease for a round, resulting in a 118-minute round trip. Currently 128/12 = 10.67 trains on the road, proposed 118/15 = 7.87 trains on the road, effectively 11 trains should be reduced to 8 from Woodlawn to New Lots, local Franklin to New Lots: 12-minute increase in running time in each direction for the Utica to New Lots section plus a 2-minute increase in running time in each direction since it would run local from Franklin to Utica, adds up to an extra 14 minutes one way, 28 minutes for a round trip, resulting in a 158-minute round trip. Currently 130/8 = 16.25 trains on the road, proposed 158/8 = 19.75 trains on the road, effectively 17 trains should be increased to 20. Since the lost 3 trains while the gained 3, this proposal should be cost-neutral Comments are welcome and anybody who thinks I am off my rocker for posting this can go on ahead and scoff until kingdom come (as has been done before), but it is pretty bad to wait 20 minutes for a train sometimes when the thing is supposed to show up every 12 minutes and I figured I would post this suggestion since others have been trying to figure out how to improve weekend CPW and QB service Are you suggesting that because a 2 train is occasionally late you would disrupt the 2, 3 ,and 4 lines to rectify a "sometime" problem? I bet if you would post your address in the crew rooms of the affected lines those same crews would be beating a path to your door to show their appreciation. Wow. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RTOMan Posted August 17, 2012 Share #328 Posted August 17, 2012 This is all discounting recovery periods and the reason for this proposal is to improve weekend service on the Nostrand Ave subway, particularly those times that the does not show up for almost 20 minutes, which is something I have noticed on several occasions. The stations along Eastern Pkwy and Livonia east of Franklin would also benefit, but 148 St-Lenox and 145 St along with the stops from 135 St to Franklin Ave would lose out (one less train per hour). Although, the are not all that crowded on the weekends, especially the 64 minutes = scheduled one-way running time for the weekend , 128 minutes, round-trip, assuming no recovery time 65 minutes = scheduled one-way running time for the weekend , 130 minutes, round-trip, assuming no recovery time from 148 to Flatbush every 15 minutes instead of 12: Rerouting it to Flatbush means a 5-minute decrease in running time in each direction, 10-minute decrease for a round, resulting in a 118-minute round trip. Currently 128/12 = 10.67 trains on the road, proposed 118/15 = 7.87 trains on the road, effectively 11 trains should be reduced to 8 from Woodlawn to New Lots, local Franklin to New Lots: 12-minute increase in running time in each direction for the Utica to New Lots section plus a 2-minute increase in running time in each direction since it would run local from Franklin to Utica, adds up to an extra 14 minutes one way, 28 minutes for a round trip, resulting in a 158-minute round trip. Currently 130/8 = 16.25 trains on the road, proposed 158/8 = 19.75 trains on the road, effectively 17 trains should be increased to 20. Since the lost 3 trains while the gained 3, this proposal should be cost-neutral Comments are welcome and anybody who thinks I am off my rocker for posting this can go on ahead and scoff until kingdom come (as has been done before), but it is pretty bad to wait 20 minutes for a train sometimes when the thing is supposed to show up every 12 minutes and I figured I would post this suggestion since others have been trying to figure out how to improve weekend CPW and QB service No comment.... 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Y2Julio Posted August 17, 2012 Share #329 Posted August 17, 2012 No recovery time? What are we, robots? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheSubwayStation Posted August 17, 2012 Share #330 Posted August 17, 2012 You might think differently if you had to wait for a on the weekend on a regular basisYou specifically said that the problem is that trains get delayed. I said that the problem should be solved only when there are delays (dispatcher should extend a to fill the gap), not always be solved regardless of delays (rerouting the ). Yes, I understand that it's annoying to wait 12 minutes for the , but that's a separate issue entirely.Or just send a down, but it might be a pain to get it back to Utica for its next northbound tripI know that people will respond with the usual "Riders need to pay attention and stop being idiots!" argument, but I think that it's easy for us buffs to forget that many people will see a train and assume it's going to Utica.I know over-serving a line is an issue, but MTA tends not to like performing quick fixes, especially on the weekends. It is as if it is all or nothing: Either let riders twist in the wind whenever their line screws up, or permanently change a service pattern somehow. On the weekends, sending one train down a line that has a gap in service is almost unheard of unless the gap is like more than a half hour, and even then I bet they would do everything in their power not to address it unless trains became dangerously overcrowded due to the service gapWell, then the MTA should do differently. That's my opinion, and I think it's better than rerouting every single and . Are you suggesting that because a 2 train is occasionally late you would disrupt the 2, 3 ,and 4 lines to rectify a "sometime" problem? I bet if you would post your address in the crew rooms of the affected lines those same crews would be beating a path to your door to show their appreciation. Wow. Bravo. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BrooklynIRT Posted August 17, 2012 Share #331 Posted August 17, 2012 (edited) This is in a large font only to get everybody's attention. I am not yelling. Actually I only discounted the recovery times to make the running time calculations easier. I did not mean that there would actually be no recovery time or negligible recovery time. Whatever recovery time there is now would mostly remain the same. My apologies if there was confusion there Edited August 17, 2012 by BrooklynIRT 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RTOMan Posted August 17, 2012 Share #332 Posted August 17, 2012 (edited) This is in a large font only to get everybody's attention. I am not yelling. Actually I only discounted the recovery times to make the running time calculations easier. I did not mean that there would actually be no recovery time or negligible recovery time. Whatever recovery time there is now would mostly remain the same. My apologies if there was confusion there If that would have been in your first post then there wouldn't be any whats? From the Ones who actually move or used to move the trains, just saying... Edited August 17, 2012 by RTOMan 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BrooklynIRT Posted August 17, 2012 Share #333 Posted August 17, 2012 My fault. Was that the only reason comments were made about addresses and crew rooms? If that was the case then I do sincerely apologize to everybody for causing such commotion 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RTOMan Posted August 17, 2012 Share #334 Posted August 17, 2012 My fault. Was that the only reason comments were made about addresses and crew rooms? If that was the case then I do sincerely apologize to everybody for causing such commotion No problem got ya! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GreatOne2k Posted August 17, 2012 Share #335 Posted August 17, 2012 (edited) Running the to Flatbush on weekends could come at a cost, remember the midday service change that extended the to Flatbush? midday before 4-7 minutes 10 minutes midday after 8 minutes 8 minutes Weekend idea to Flatbush Current 8 minutes 10-14 minutes Proposed (option 1) 10 minutes 10 minutes Proposed (option 2) 12 minutes 12 minutes Edited August 17, 2012 by GreatOne2k 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BrooklynIRT Posted August 17, 2012 Share #336 Posted August 17, 2012 (edited) RTOMan: Yep, I should have made that clear in the first post. Let it be known that I do not believe in or have ever believed in zero-recovery periods or other draconian labor rules and the zero-recovery thing was done only to simplify the calculations and nothing more. Again, I apologize sincerely to those who were offended by the confusion Again I know the service proposal is weird but the bunching up on the weekends is something that almost never stops..every weekend some train has an issue and trains are packed to the gills until the train gets to the Nostrand Ave line when they ain't supposed to be with the follower just 4 minutes away carrying significantly fewer pax when the headway is 12 You absolutely cannot cut the weekend or weekday at all. Too much ridership on Jerome. Very dense area Edited August 17, 2012 by BrooklynIRT 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Snowblock Posted August 17, 2012 Share #337 Posted August 17, 2012 Next week you'll have a proposal for sending the 4 to FLA....... 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GreatOne2k Posted August 17, 2012 Share #338 Posted August 17, 2012 You absolutely cannot cut the weekend or weekday at all. Too much ridership on Jerome. Very dense area MTA has already done this during middays using "cost neutrality" and evening out the headways to do it. It did help midday service though. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BrooklynIRT Posted August 17, 2012 Share #339 Posted August 17, 2012 (edited) Next week you'll have a proposal for sending the 4 to FLA....... So..do you have any better cost-neutral ideas that might rectify the bunching problems of the ? Utica riders would likely make a much bigger deal if the did not stop there than if a 7th Ave Exp/EP Lcl did not stop there and Livonia would have service every 6 minutes while Nostrand would have it every 8 when Nostrand should have more service than Livonia, not vice-versa Edited August 17, 2012 by BrooklynIRT 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Q10 Airport Posted August 17, 2012 Share #340 Posted August 17, 2012 We are now proposing service improvements on every last subway line during the weekends (it feels like that). Where do we live, fantasy land? The MTA doesn't have endless money! Every line has its times where you need to wait 20 minutes (from someone who has been on the dozens of times during the weekends). We need to prioritize what service changes are needed most. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CDTA Posted August 17, 2012 Share #341 Posted August 17, 2012 Where do we live, fantasy land? Yes. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trainfan22 Posted August 17, 2012 Share #342 Posted August 17, 2012 I support this idea just because R62s would run to Flatbush on weekends! R142s on Weekdays, SMEE's on weekends. Nice mix 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
S78 via Hylan Posted August 17, 2012 Share #343 Posted August 17, 2012 (edited) I support this idea just because R62s would run to Flatbush on weekends! R142s on Weekdays, SMEE's on weekends. Nice mix Sorry to burst your bubble, but proposals should not be about railfans seeing what they want to see. Plus, there have been G.O.'s where 's were sent to Flatbush Av and I believe there will be one this weekend too, so you can see it then. Edited August 17, 2012 by S78 via Hylan 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grand Concourse Posted August 17, 2012 Share #344 Posted August 17, 2012 Running the to Flatbush on weekends could come at a cost, remember the midday service change that extended the to Flatbush? midday before 4-7 minutes 10 minutes midday after 8 minutes 8 minutes Weekend idea to Flatbush Current 8 minutes 10-14 minutes Proposed (option 1) 10 minutes 10 minutes Proposed (option 2) 12 minutes 12 minutes But the midday change was a huge help for the FB end because the was so terrible and overcrowded. was such a relief because it 'doubled' service to FB and gave us emptier trains compared to the . This was a smart move. As for weekends, I guess there's no need for the . 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheSubwayStation Posted August 17, 2012 Share #345 Posted August 17, 2012 (edited) It doesn't make sense to double weekend service on the Nostrand Av Line (whether it's the , , or ,) simply because some (2)s are late. I'll say this again. There's a pattern here: Nostrand Avenue riders think the Nostrand Avenue Line needs more service. CPW riders think the CPW Line needs more service. Brighton riders think the Brighton Line needs more service. 4 Avenue riders think the 4 Avenue line needs more service. The one and only conclusion that I've reached is that nobody wants to wait 10 minutes for a train, but sometimes infrequent service is necessary to match demand. Edited August 17, 2012 by TheSubwayStation 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Concourse Express Posted August 17, 2012 Share #346 Posted August 17, 2012 Running the to Flatbush on weekends could come at a cost, remember the midday service change that extended the to Flatbush? midday before 4-7 minutes 10 minutes midday after 8 minutes 8 minutes Weekend idea to Flatbush Current 8 minutes 10-14 minutes Proposed (option 1) 10 minutes 10 minutes Proposed (option 2) 12 minutes 12 minutes As Brooklyn IRT said, cutting the is a HUGE NO-NO due to high ridership on the Jerome El (and it's still increasing). Increasing weekend service even to 10-min headways could alleviate some crowding... 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trainfan22 Posted August 17, 2012 Share #347 Posted August 17, 2012 Sorry to burst your bubble, but proposals should not be about railfans seeing what they want to see. Plus, there have been G.O.'s where 's were sent to Flatbush Av and I believe there will be one this weekend too, so you can see it then. I know, that was a light hearted post, don't take it so seriously. I remember that G.O with the to Flatbush, I fanned it and took a photo of two, it was cool to see 62s in Flatbush Terminal. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
S78 via Hylan Posted August 17, 2012 Share #348 Posted August 17, 2012 I know, that was a light hearted post, don't take it so seriously. I remember that G.O with the to Flatbush, I fanned it and took a photo of two, it was cool to see 62s in Flatbush Terminal. My bad..... didn't mean to get all serious about it. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Snowblock Posted August 17, 2012 Share #349 Posted August 17, 2012 I operated the very first R62 3 train out of FLA when they did that GO last January, and never before had I seen such levels of foam. It was like a Low-V trip x10, and some of you are seriously disturbing...... 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
checkmatechamp13 Posted August 18, 2012 Share #350 Posted August 18, 2012 Running the to Flatbush on weekends could come at a cost, remember the midday service change that extended the to Flatbush? midday before 4-7 minutes 10 minutes midday after 8 minutes 8 minutes Why did they add service to the ? They could've kept it at 10 minute headways and then cut less service on the (Maybe run it every 6-7 minutes instead of every 8) 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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