Queens Bus Redesign Discussion Thread

[Interested Rider]

On 1/9/2020 at 7:58 PM, BrooklynBus said:

The plan to end the Q53 will be scrapped and there will be some changes in Jackson Heights because of all the opposition there. They will also probably be forced to return some of the proposed bus stops slated for removal. But in the end they will still remove far too many bus stops than necessary, and will also cancel some of the good parts of the plan that people like, with the excuse that they can’t keep them because of the additions they are putting back because they have arbitrarily decided the plan has to be cost neutral.

Also, I believe some of the cuts to MTA Bus Co routes have been forced upon the MTA by NYCDOT to reduce the subsidy the city has to pay the MTA so the city can use that money to expand ferry service. 

I would not be surprised that the Mayor is behind the cuts as he is more interested in ferry service that serves the communities that voted for him. I know the mayor is not running for re-election but his goal now is to maximize the damage done to the city before he gets a job with one of those think tanks that come up with many of these "ideas". As far as NYCDOT is concerned, it is more important to put up useless bike lanes in communities that do not want them or need them (May I ask who uses them on Avenues W and X in Sheepshead  Bay?)

What I am afraid of is this year's and next year's gloom and doom budgets that have started toappear on the state and city 's  horizon. I think that we are seeing here is the opening shot with the proposed cuts in Queens.

[BrooklynBus]

1 hour ago, Interested Rider said:

Pardon my sarcasm but "what is revenue?" I thought all of the agency's money comes from the taxpayers of the city and the state when the two  governmental entities voted on a budget each year..

By the same token "why should we advertise?" I thought we have a captive audience and we do not need to advertise our services to them.

With the bunch that is running (ruining) the system even if there was an advertising department, the penny pinching gang would find a way to get rid of it  the moment one of the political candidates runs against one of their patrons and of course,, the department would disappear in a New York minute..

Yes! I too remember the ads on the inside of buses and it bought in revenue for the agency but was a time when ideas went up the chain of command and were discussed and implemented. Today, if the idea does not come from the mountain top, it will never see the light of day and how many employees would take a chance at upsetting someone who will find a way to abolish their item without batting an eyelash. For the record, someone tried to do it to me and they were unsuccessful. Many of us that are part of that generation were not afraid to stick our neck out for something that were believed in to be right and did suffer the consequences for it. 

It is a different world out there as compared when we started in the 1970's and my heart goes out to those who are first coming into goverment today. 

I think you might have misunderstood what I was saying. I was not saying the MTA should advertise its services. I was saying they should get advertisers to advertise inside the buses. I don’t know if there ever was an advertising department. I always remember it being contracted out. 

I don’t know where you got the idea that all ideas originate from the top. The MTA had a very successful Suggestion Department whereby suggestions were evaluated anonymously, and employees who saved the MTA money received cash awards which sometimes were substantial like up to $30,000. 

Employees in the department where I worked complained to my boss that it took too long for suggestions to be evaluated and sometimes worthwhile ones were rejected, so he started his own suggestion program and I was the head of it. Suggestions were evaluated by a committee of five. We could only give $100 rewards, but still received many suggestions. When I retired, the program ended because no one wanted to continue it. I understand that the NYCT Program also ended which made no sense because it was a good program but never received the prominence it deserved. It should have been headed by a Vice President. Instead the person in charge was not even a manager and had no power to see suggestions were fairly evaluated. There was an appeals procedure to the Executive Vice President, but nothing was really re-evaluated, and appealed suggestions got a rubber stamp rejection.

What I learned from this was how easy it was for the MTA to save money. Changing one simple procedure how something was done had the potential of saving $100,000 annually. It made sense to give the employee a $10,000 reward to encourage other worthwhile suggestions. Just think how many procedures could be improved. The amount of money potentially saved is limitless. 

So without the program, maybe you are correct that now all suggestions have to come from the top. Without the Suggestion Program, when someone had a good idea, the bosses usually stole it anyway claiming it was their own and getting credit for it, leaving a bunch of disgruntled employees. 

[N6 Limited]

3 hours ago, BrooklynBus said:

I think you might have misunderstood what I was saying. I was not saying the MTA should advertise its services. I was saying they should get advertisers to advertise inside the buses. I don’t know if there ever was an advertising department. I always remember it being contracted out. 

I don’t know where you got the idea that all ideas originate from the top. The MTA had a very successful Suggestion Department whereby suggestions were evaluated anonymously, and employees who saved the MTA money received cash awards which sometimes were substantial like up to $30,000. 

Employees in the department where I worked complained to my boss that it took too long for suggestions to be evaluated and sometimes worthwhile ones were rejected, so he started his own suggestion program and I was the head of it. Suggestions were evaluated by a committee of five. We could only give $100 rewards, but still received many suggestions. When I retired, the program ended because no one wanted to continue it. I understand that the NYCT Program also ended which made no sense because it was a good program but never received the prominence it deserved. It should have been headed by a Vice President. Instead the person in charge was not even a manager and had no power to see suggestions were fairly evaluated. There was an appeals procedure to the Executive Vice President, but nothing was really re-evaluated, and appealed suggestions got a rubber stamp rejection.

What I learned from this was how easy it was for the MTA to save money. Changing one simple procedure how something was done had the potential of saving $100,000 annually. It made sense to give the employee a $10,000 reward to encourage other worthwhile suggestions. Just think how many procedures could be improved. The amount of money potentially saved is limitless. 

So without the program, maybe you are correct that now all suggestions have to come from the top. Without the Suggestion Program, when someone had a good idea, the bosses usually stole it anyway claiming it was their own and getting credit for it, leaving a bunch of disgruntled employees. 

Sounds like Byford needs to be informed about this, he'd probably bring it back.

[B35 via Church]

7 hours ago, Interested Rider said:

....As far as NYCDOT is concerned, it is more important to put up useless bike lanes in communities that do not want them or need them (May I ask who uses them on Avenues W and X in Sheepshead Bay?)

I still can't get over the ones along Bedford av. in Midwood & the ones along 73rd av in Fresh Meadows.... Quite sure there's plenty of other rather unjustified examples of the sort....

[Interested Rider]

9 hours ago, BrooklynBus said:

I think you might have misunderstood what I was saying. I was not saying the MTA should advertise its services. I was saying they should get advertisers to advertise inside the buses. I don’t know if there ever was an advertising department. I always remember it being contracted out. 

I don’t know where you got the idea that all ideas originate from the top. The MTA had a very successful Suggestion Department whereby suggestions were evaluated anonymously, and employees who saved the MTA money received cash awards which sometimes were substantial like up to $30,000. 

Employees in the department where I worked complained to my boss that it took too long for suggestions to be evaluated and sometimes worthwhile ones were rejected, so he started his own suggestion program and I was the head of it. Suggestions were evaluated by a committee of five. We could only give $100 rewards, but still received many suggestions. When I retired, the program ended because no one wanted to continue it. I understand that the NYCT Program also ended which made no sense because it was a good program but never received the prominence it deserved. It should have been headed by a Vice President. Instead the person in charge was not even a manager and had no power to see suggestions were fairly evaluated. There was an appeals procedure to the Executive Vice President, but nothing was really re-evaluated, and appealed suggestions got a rubber stamp rejection.

What I learned from this was how easy it was for the MTA to save money. Changing one simple procedure how something was done had the potential of saving $100,000 annually. It made sense to give the employee a $10,000 reward to encourage other worthwhile suggestions. Just think how many procedures could be improved. The amount of money potentially saved is limitless. 

So without the program, maybe you are correct that now all suggestions have to come from the top. Without the Suggestion Program, when someone had a good idea, the bosses usually stole it anyway claiming it was their own and getting credit for it, leaving a bunch of disgruntled employees. 

It is quite possible that I may have misinterpreted your previous statements based on the fact that we worked in two different agencies where suggestions had different ways of being evaluated. It is great to hear that the MTA had a unit that read the suggestions and evaluated them to see if it would work.  I had the opposite problem and it was the reason that employees were reluctant to submit anything that would imporve services. I found this to be true when it comes to those agencies that are under the direct control of either the governor or the mayor.  Unless the program is strongly supported by management in the way you describe and not just with posters as it was where I worked, it will not be effective.

The vast maority of agencies in government are run by people that have loyalty to the executive that appointed them. During my time working in government, I noticed a marked shift in management thinking and style when it came to employee suggestions. When I started in 1979, it was "don't send me problems, send me solutions" to one where it became don't bother wiith suggestions as we know everything. Unfortunately, it is my opinion that this has become the standard today in government

 

[BrooklynBus]

1 hour ago, Interested Rider said:

It is quite possible that I may have misinterpreted your previous statements based on the fact that we worked in two different agencies where suggestions had different ways of being evaluated. It is great to hear that the MTA had a unit that read the suggestions and evaluated them to see if it would work.  I had the opposite problem and it was the reason that employees were reluctant to submit anything that would imporve services. I found this to be true when it comes to those agencies that are under the direct control of either the governor or the mayor.  Unless the program is strongly supported by management in the way you describe and not just with posters as it was where I worked, it will not be effective.

The vast maority of agencies in government are run by people that have loyalty to the executive that appointed them. During my time working in government, I noticed a marked shift in management thinking and style when it came to employee suggestions. When I started in 1979, it was "don't send me problems, send me solutions" to one where it became don't bother wiith suggestions as we know everything. Unfortunately, it is my opinion that this has become the standard today in government

 

It's funny you said that. When I started with the MTA IN 1981, those were among the first words my boss said to me, "Don't come to me with problems, come with solutions." 

[Q43LTD]

After working OT on Christmas and New Years, and battling the flu, I'm gonna put in my input on these proposed routes. Bronx bus revamp of 1984, the Queens redesign would like for you to hold his beer.

QT1- Astoria-Downtown Brooklyn. Combination of the Q69 and the B62. The Q69 without the Queens Plaza portion. Maybe some short turns at Williamsburg? Runs 24/7. Possible depots: LGA or GA

QT2- Steinway-Williamsburg. Combo of the Q101 and the B24. Proposed for LTD service. Doesn't serve Queens Plaza. Operates 24/7. Possible depots: LGA or GA

QT3- Jamaica-Williamsburg. The Q54 with no service east of Jamaica Center. Operates 24/7. Possible depot: FP. Maybe it keeps it short turns at Fresh Pond Rd

QT4- Jackson Hts-Downtown Brooklyn. The B57 extended further east into Queens. What will replace the Downtown-Red Hook portion? Operates 24/7. Possible depots: LGA or GA

QT5- Jamaica-Brookdale Hospital. I wonder who actually did this trip? Combination of the B15 and the Q8. Maybe keep the Euclid short turns? No service east of Sutphin. 24/7 service M-F. Possible depots: JFK or ENY

QT6- Flushing-Ridgewood. The Q58 without the Corona Av portion. Seems like it loses LTD service. It actually stops at Flushing  ! Operates 24/7. Possible depots: FP

QT7- Cambria Hts-Spring Creek. Basically an extended Q89 (could have done this without a redesign). Operates 24/7. One of many routes to link SE Queens with SW Queens. Possible depots: JA, BP, JFK or SC.

QT10-Rego Park-LGA Marine Terminal. Combo of the Q23 and 29. 24/7 service. Possible depot: LGA

QT11- East Elmhurst-Fresh Meadows via Kew Gardens. Combo of the Q23 and the Q46. 24/7 service. Possible depots: LGA or CP

QT12- Elmhurst-Queensboro CC. I would just call it a rerouted Q88. 24/7 service. Overnights, I would end it at Springfield and Horace Harding. Possible depots: JA or QV.

QT13- Jamaica-Far Rockaway. A rerouted Q113 south of Mott Av. 24/7 service. Possible depot: BP

QT14- Electchester-JFK Airport via Kew Gardens. Combo of the Q10 and 64. What happens to LTD service on Lefferts? Maybe add some short turns at Forest Hills and Kew Gardens. 24/7 service. Possible depots: BP or JFK.

QT15- College Point-Queensboro CC via Flushing. A combination of the short turned Q65 and the short turned Q27. Possible short turns at Flushing. Operates 24/7. Possible depots: CP, CS or QV

QT16- Jamaica-Whitestone. I would call it the Q34 with expanded service. Possible short trips to Flushing. Operates 24/7. Possible depots: CP or CS

QT17- Flushing-Little Neck. A rerouted Q12. I wonder whats on Marathon for it to go down there instead of LNP? Operates 24/7. Possible depot: CS

QT18- Springfield Gardens-Oakland Gardens via Jamaica. Combinations of the Q5 and 43. Operates 24/7. Possible depots: JA or QV

QT19- Jamaica-Springfield Gardens. Basically the Q111 short turn to Farmers getting its own designation. Operates 24/7. Possible depot: BP

QT20- Jamaica-JFK Airport (another route that could have been done without a redesign) A rerouted Q6 with no service east of Parsons. The post office gets the shaft, oh well. Operates 24/7. Possible depot: JFK

QT22- Rockaway Park-Cedarhurst. No Q22 west of Rockaway Park, but extended east to Cedarhurst/Inwood via the Q114. Possible depot: FR

QT24- Jamaica-Bushwick. The Q24 with no service east of Jamaica LIRR. Loses overnight service. Possible depot: ENY

QT30- Flushing-Fresh Meadows. I would call it an extended Q26 with off peak and weekend service restored. LTD stops west of Utopia/46. Possible depot: CS

QT31- Flushing-Queens Village. Basically a short turned Q27. LTD stops west of Utopia/46. Possible depots: CS or QV

QT32- Kew Gardens-Lake Success. The Q46 with LTD stops west of 188. Operates 24/7. Possible depot: QV

QT33- Jamaica-Queensboro CC. Basically the Q75 coming back from the dead. Another route that could have been made without a redesign. Possible depots: JA or QV

QT34- Jamaica-Manhasset. I kinda wanna say a rerouted N26. May give NICE a reason to get rid of it after proposing to run it off peak. LTD stops west of 229. Operates 24/7. Possible depots: JA or QV

QT35- Rockaway Park-Brooklyn College. It's the Q35 staying intact with an extension to Beach 108. LTD stops north of Kings Plaza. Operates 24/7. Possible depots: FR or FLA

QT36- Jamaica-Lake Success. I would call it the Q43 extended eastward, but shortened westward (No service west of Merrick). LTD stops west of Springfield. This may beat out that N22 to N25 xfer. Possible depot: QV

QT37- Kew Gardens-South Ozone Park. The Q37 without diversion to the Casino. Possible depot: JFK

QT38- Jamaica-Belmont Park. Basically the Q2 with owl service discontinued. LTD stops west of 187. Possible depot; QV

QT39- Jamaica-Cambria Hts. I would call it a rerouted Q83 bringing back vestiges of the old Q3A. LTD stops on Hillside. Possible depots: JA or QV

QT40- Jamaica-Elmont. Basically an extended Q4. No stops on Merrick Blvd. Possible depot: JA

QT41- Jamaica-Cambria Hts. A shortened Q84 ending at Springfield. LTD stops on Merrick. Possible depot: JA

QT42- Jamaica-Green Acres. The Q5 staying intact. LTD stops west of Merrick. Possible depot: JA

QT43- Jamaica-Rosedale. The Q85 going down Brewer instead of Merrick. I kind of see it going to Green Acres though. LTD stops on Brewer. possible depots: JA or BP

QT44- Jamaica-Fordham. The Q44 SBS extended north, but cut back to Jamaica Center. Operates 24/7. Possible depots: CS or WF

QT45- Jamaica-Rosedale. The Q111 with no service north of Jamaica Center. LTD stops on Brewer. Operates 24/7. Possible depot: BP

QT46- Jamaica-South Ozone Park- An extended Q40. LTD stops on Sutphin. Possible depot: JFK

QT47- Jamaica-South Ozone Park. An extended Q9 on both ends. LTD stops on Sutphin. Possible depot: JFK

QT48- Flushing-Ft Totten. The Q16 via Willets Pt branch. Rush hours only. LTD stops on Union. Possible depot: CS

QT49- Flushing-Ft Totten. Q16/28 combo. Rush hours only. LTD stops on Northern. Possible depot: CS

QT50- LGA Marine Term-Pelham Bay Park. The Q50 with no service north of Pelham Bay  but extended westward to LGA. Possible depots: ECH, CS or GH

QT51- Flushing-Bay Terrace. A shortened Q13. Rush hours only. LTD stops on Northern. Possible depot: CS

QT52- Elmhurst-Arverne. Still trying to wonder why we're getting rid of the Q53 SBS. Bringing in a summer variant isn't gonna make it any better. Operates 24/7. Possible depot: FR

QT54- Jamaica-Williamsburg. Metropolitan needs 2 routes why? Same as the QT3 except no overnight service. Possible depot: FP

QT55- Jamaica-Ridgewood. An extended Q55. One of the few I actually like. 24/7 service. Possible depot: FP

QT56- Jamaica-Broadway Junction. The Q56 stays in tact. 24/7 service. Possible depot: ENY

QT58- Flushing-Ridgewood. A rerouted Q58 with the Corona Av routing. Possible depot: CS or FP

QT59- Rego Park-Williamsburg. The Q59 without overnight service. Possible depot: GA

QT60- Jamaica-Hunters Point. The Q60 with no service to Manhattan and no service south of Archer Av. 24/7 service. Possible depots: JFK or LGA

QT61- East Elmhurst-Columbus Circle. An extended Q47. Possible depots: LGA or MJQ

QT62- Cedarhurst-Cypress Hills. An extended Q7. A through Rockaway Blvd route. 24/7 service. Possible depots: JFK or ENY

QT63- Ravenswood-Rego Park. An extended Q104. A through Broadway route. Possible depot: LGA

QT64- Jamaica-College Point. I would say its the Q30/31, 76 and 20 all having that one bad night in Vegas. At least there's a through Utopia route. 24/7 service. Possible depots: CS or CP

QT65- Jamaica-Beechhurst. A modified Q65 extended over the Q42. Possible depot: CP or JA

QT66- Flushing-Woodside. The Q66 with no service west of Woodside, just like the old days. 24/7 service. Possible depots: CP or LGA

QT67- Ozone Park-Floral Park. The Q36/110/112 mash up. At least they didn't combine the Q83 with the Q112. Or combine the Q56 with the Q36/110.  24/7 service. Possible depots: BP, JFK or QV

QT68- Jamaica Hospital-JFK Airport. An extended Q3, although I wouldn't end at Jamaica Hospital though. Maybe Sutphin/Hillside. 24/7 service. Possible depot: JA

QT69- Hunters Point-Jackson Hts. An extended Q69. What's the deal down in Hunters Point now? Possible depot: LGA

QT70- Woodside-LaGuardia. The Q70 stays in tact. Possible depot: LGA 24/7 service

QT71- Bay Terrace-Springfield Gardens. My "favorite" route lol. No subway connections. Maybe a short turn at Queensboro CC. 24/7 service. Possible depots: CS, QV, JA or JFK

QT72- Rego Park-East Elmhurst. Basically the Q72 during the Triboro days. Possible depot: LGA

QT73- Flushing-Laurelton. Basically the Q12/13, 76, 77 and 84.  24/7 service. Possible depots: CS, QV or JA

QT74-Elmhurst-Jackson Hts. A modified Q49. Possible depot: LGA

QT75- Woodside-Midtown. Parts of the Q32, 39 and 104. Possible depots: CS or LGA

QT76- Astoria-Williamsburg. Combo of the Q101 and the B62. Possible depots: LGA or GA

QT77- Long Island City-Elmhurst- Combo of the Q38, 39 and 67. At least the Q38 gets broken up. Possible depot: LGA

QT78- Middle Village-Roosevelt Island. Combo of the Q102, 66, 18 and 67. 24/7 service. Possible depot: LGA

QT79- Hunters Point-Rikers Island. Q100/102 combo. Gives 31 St a through route. 24/7 service. Possible depot: LGA

QT80- Astoria-Ridgewood. Q18/39 combo. Possible depot: LGA

QT81- Astoria-Whitestone via Flushing. Combines elements of the Q14, 15 and 19. Possible depot: LGA or CP

QT82- East Elmhurst-Glendale. Combines the Q23 and 29. Possible depot: LGA

QT83- Elmhurst-Howard Beach. Basically the Q21 without the Lindenwood portion. Possible depot: JFK

QT84- Flushing-Bayside via Whitetone. A Q20/25/76 combo. Possible depots: CS or CP

QT85- Flushing-Ft Totten. Q16/28 combo. 24/7 service. Possible depot: CS

QT86- Mitchell Gardens/Linden Hill-Glendale. A little homage to the Q74. Possible depot: CS

QT87- Forest Hills-Little Neck. Combines the Q23, 64, 75/88 and 30. Possible depots: LGA, QV or CS

QT88- Howard Beach-Hamilton Beach via Ozone Park. The Q11/21 combo. The shorter version. Possible depot: JFK

I'll do the express ones later
 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Eric B]

I just took notice of the QT 86 and 87 (the former picking up the 54's swing by Atlas Mall, allowing the 54 to go straight again, and the latter basically replacing the Q23), and they still end short of Myrtle Ave. They should go the few blocks to Myrtle, improving access from to the Forest Hills area. These routes stopping just short of major avenues with connection are a holdover from the old network that need to be fixed, and  don;t know why these two were missed.

[N6 Limited]

OK, after viewing light buses during the evening rush rolling through Jamaica while playing follow the leader, I can see from an efficiency perspective why this Queens redesign has to be done, it's really a waste to have all this redundant service when there are like 3-5 seats being occupied.

Also, the buses themselves add to the congestion, I saw like 5 buses in a row at one point on Jamaica Ave, different routes, light.  It makes since for them to cut down on mileage, etc. What they're doing with downtown Jamaica and Flushing (de-cluttering) makes sense. I can't speak for western Queens, I don't use the bus over there.

 

[bobtehpanda]

1 hour ago, N6 Limited said:

OK, after viewing light buses during the evening rush rolling through Jamaica while playing follow the leader, I can see from an efficiency perspective why this Queens redesign has to be done, it's really a waste to have all this redundant service when there are like 3-5 seats being occupied.

Also, the buses themselves add to the congestion, I saw like 5 buses in a row at one point on Jamaica Ave, different routes, light.  It makes since for them to cut down on mileage, etc. What they're doing with downtown Jamaica and Flushing (de-cluttering) makes sense. I can't speak for western Queens, I don't use the bus over there.

This is more of a reason to have 14th St style busways in Flushing and Jamaica rather than to de-clutter, whatever that means. 

This will mostly add travel times for people trying to connect from buses from one end of Jamaica (north and east) and the other (south and west), and also remove countless passengers' connections to the  and and AirTrain (coming from the north and east) and the   (coming from the west).

[Via Garibaldi 8]

Queens Lawmakers Complain About Proposed Bus-Route Changes 

MTA’s Andy Byford hears concerns over new stop locations and the loss of Sunday express service
 

The state-controlled MTA is overhauling all of its bus networks borough by borough.PHOTO: ANDREW LAMBERSON FOR THE WALL STREET JOURNAL

By Paul Berger and Jimmy Vielkind

Jan. 14, 2020 6:16 pm ET

ALBANY, N.Y.—A top official at New York’s Metropolitan Transportation Authority traveled to the Capitol on Tuesday to hear out state lawmakers unhappy with a proposed overhaul of the authority’s Queens bus network.

 

Andy Byford, head of the MTA’s subway and bus systems, spent more than an hour in a closed-door session with Democratic Assembly members, who aired a litany of concerns about the redesign, which was unveiled on Dec. 30.

The state-controlled MTA is overhauling all of its bus networks borough by borough to address changes in ridership and travel demand. Queens is the third borough to undergo the process, and the proposed changes there are the most extensive so far.

Some legislators said Tuesday they were concerned about the redesign because they didn’t see it as an improvement. Among their complaints was a loss of Sunday express-bus service, changes in the location of stops, and the shape of existing routes.

Several legislators said they were particularly concerned because they voted last year to raise funds for the MTA through a system of congestion pricing—in which drivers are charged a fee for entering Manhattan south of 60th Street—and expected bus service would improve.

“A lot of people were very upset,” said Assemblyman Jeffrion Aubry, a Democrat who represents parts of the Elmhurst and East Elmhurst neighborhoods.

Mr. Byford said he believed the meeting was positive, and stressed that the plan released last month was an early draft.

“This is a listening process. We want to get this right,” Mr. Byford said.

City buses have experienced declining ridership in recent years, yet still carry 2.2 million riders on an average weekday.

Many of New York’s routes haven’t changed in decades. Some still follow former trolley lines or bear no relation to the city’s residential growth and changed commuting patterns.

The idea behind the redesigns is to better serve the city, while creating simpler, more direct routes that improve reliability and travel times. MTA officials also promise more frequent service.

MTA officials launched a redesigned network for Staten Island’s express buses in 2018. They unveiled a final proposed new systemwide network for the Bronx in October 2019.

Both of those changes faced concern from elected officials. But because Queens isn’t laid out on a grid like the Bronx, the MTA’s proposed redesign for the borough is more extensive, with a larger number of altered, eliminated or added routes.

Mr. Byford said transportation planners considered a variety of data in designing the new routes, including demographics, ridership counts and the locations of health-care facilities and subway stations.

Assemblyman Michael DenDekker, a Democrat who represents Jackson Heights, Queens, asked Mr. Byford to make no changes within his district and said the MTA should have done more to consider existing ridership habits. Mr. DenDekker stormed out of the meeting.

“People bought homes and planned on bus routes and put businesses and schools along those bus routes, and to just change them is going to be very difficult for constituents to accept,” he said. Mr. DenDekker added that he was cautiously optimistic the plan would improve with consultation.

The Queens proposal has been welcomed by advocates. “It’s rare to see the MTA really get out from behind the bunker mentality and propose something big, bold and ambitious,” said Ben Fried, a spokesman for TransitCenter. “I think the rewards are going to be really substantial.”

The proposal adds new north-south and east-west connections. But it also proposes the consolidation of overlapping segments of routes.

MTA officials say they must redesign the city’s bus system to stem declining ridership. Between 2013 and 2018, bus ridership across the city fell 14%.

The authority attributed the most recent declines to the swift rise of competition from ride-hailing services, such as Uber TechnologiesInc., and to increased road congestion, which has slowed buses.

MTA officials will host a series of open houses to discuss the Queens proposal during January and February. They are expected to release a proposed final plan before the end of June that must then be voted on by the MTA board.

After Tuesday’s meeting, Mr. Byford said the process doesn’t have a specific end date, and that he hoped developing the plan would be a “model of consultation.”

Write to Paul Berger at Paul.Berger@wsj.com and Jimmy Vielkind at Jimmy.Vielkind@wsj.com

Source: https://www.wsj.com/articles/queens-lawmakers-complain-about-proposed-bus-route-changes-11579043813?redirect=amp&fbclid=IwAR2sjgwkf070oHVeuknKd-pVOrVBM0gADvRQvviD_asQT-Xsd7WDLCplxK4#click=https://t.co/3bhjTcqac8

 

Edited January 15, 2020 by Via Garibaldi 8

[B35 via Church]

4 hours ago, N6 Limited said:

OK, after viewing light buses during the evening rush rolling through Jamaica while playing follow the leader, I can see from an efficiency perspective why this Queens redesign has to be done, it's really a waste to have all this redundant service when there are like 3-5 seats being occupied.

Also, the buses themselves add to the congestion, I saw like 5 buses in a row at one point on Jamaica Ave, different routes, light.  It makes since for them to cut down on mileage, etc. What they're doing with downtown Jamaica and Flushing (de-cluttering) makes sense. I can't speak for western Queens, I don't use the bus over there.

I can see why a redesign has to be done; not necessarily this particular one, though....

They're trying to be too cute with these different service types for local routes.... It's pretty clear that the (real) focus of this redesign has less to do with de-cluttering (as if to say, service will be reallocated elsewhere) & more to do with simply axing service for the simple sake of it....

[Lex]

2 hours ago, B35 via Church said:

I can see why a redesign has to be done; not necessarily this particular one, though....

They're trying to be too cute with these different service types for local routes.... It's pretty clear that the (real) focus of this redesign has less to do with de-cluttering (as if to say, service will be reallocated elsewhere) & more to do with simply axing service for the simple sake of it....

That QT35 is more than enough proof of that...

[NY1635]

Why eliminate Sunday Service? Sunday is the one day of the week when buses actually run on time and people are far more relaxed. Any delays on routes is mostly caused by people shopping Queens Center Mall and the Rego Center. Those new  bus lanes and new traffic signals between Grand Avenue and 71st/Continental on Queens Blvd are what's causing most of the delays. The Q60 and other routes are now traveling on an orderly single file line with no space to manuver around on the Outer Lanes of Queens Blvd. It's now safe to cross Queens Blvd, but now buses are slower thanks to the lack of turns till a major intersection. 

There's also Traffic at the Five Towns Shopping Center and Green Acres Mall heading into Queens to consider. People love to shop till they drop during the day.  From what I've seen at Flushing, most shops are doing away with 24 or Midnight and closing up around 9pm-10pm the latest. Same goes for the shops at Jamaica except the Movie Theater and the Clubs. 

Edited January 15, 2020 by NY1635

[NY1635]

12 hours ago, bobtehpanda said:

This is more of a reason to have 14th St style busways in Flushing and Jamaica rather than to de-clutter, whatever that means. 

This will mostly add travel times for people trying to connect from buses from one end of Jamaica (north and east) and the other (south and west), and also remove countless passengers' connections to the  and and AirTrain (coming from the north and east) and the   (coming from the west).

The MTA had shut down Jamaica Center and Sutphin-Archer Avenue last year during nights and weekends to do repairs and give both stations a wash.

Subway Riders weren't happy with the  shuttle from Crescent Street or 121st Street ending only at Jamaica Hospital and being told to transfer to the  at Van Wyck during overnight hours.

 riders had it slightly easy in the sense that their shuttle ran from Jamaica Center to Union Turnpike, but the  shuttles pretty much took up most of the bays on Archer Ave from Parsons to 153rd. The poor signage and lack of directions didn't help. 

Flushing's problem is pretty much figuring out how to balance the loads coming from Corona going to or thru Flushing to get to points east, and people from Bayside, Fresh Meadows, Little Neck going to Flushing all without cramming themselves on the same . There's also Citi Field and US Open Patrons at Willets Point to consider.

[BrooklynBus]

 

More reactions from Rockaway, Maspeth, Glendale, Middle Village and Jackson Heights

https://www.rockawave.com/articles/simon-says-457/?fbclid=IwAR2wpCKI1xsDxFxX8AnJBo9G-CymjH-K5DPZMfMawRgzo97-mlhNOlp2fP8

https://qns.com/story/2020/01/10/maspeth-glendale-and-middle-village-residents-share-concerns-over-bus-redesign/

https://qns.com/story/2020/01/08/jackson-heights-residents-dismayed-with-bus-service-cuts-proposed-by-mta/

 

We now have over 100 signatures on our petition to stop the MTA from removing half the bus stops in Queens. Please help us get more and spread the word on Facebook, Twitter, Instagram and other transit forums. Thanks.

https://www.change.org/p/mta-oppose-the-mta-s-plan-to-eliminate-bus-stops

Edited January 15, 2020 by BrooklynBus

[N6 Limited]

12 hours ago, Via Garibaldi 8 said:

Mr. Byford said transportation planners considered a variety of data in designing the new routes, including demographics, ridership counts and the locations of health-care facilities and subway stations.

Right someone sees a line on a map and say "omg they're reducing service 20 min headway" but resources should be allocated accordingly.

12 hours ago, Via Garibaldi 8 said:

Assemblyman Michael DenDekker, a Democrat who represents Jackson Heights, Queens, asked Mr. Byford to make no changes within his district and said the MTA should have done more to consider existing ridership habits.

The routes in Jackson Heights which are proposed to connect to each of the  stations, the MTA most likely has metrocard data which shows the majority transferring at those stations anyway, as opposed to staying on congested Roosevelt Ave until 74th st.

12 hours ago, Via Garibaldi 8 said:

The proposal adds new north-south and east-west connections. But it also proposes the consolidation of overlapping segments of routes.

 

This is needed , more connection options and direct trips.

Also, 25 people on 1 bus is more efficient than 5 people on 5 buses.

Speaking of which, I was thinking about the N23/N27 merge. It could have worked but they implemented it before they had GPS feeds. I heard that sometimes the N27 would leave Roslyn before the N23 arrived, etc.  Now, with GPS there's no excuse for missed connections.

One trip, on the way back to Hempstead, the N23 became SRO and picked up a few passengers on Willis Ave. The B/O asked people to move back, this caused some people to complain about the service change, but it was SRO for maybe 10 mins till we got to Hillside Ave, where a lot of people transferred to the N22.

12 hours ago, Via Garibaldi 8 said:

The Queens proposal has been welcomed by advocates. “It’s rare to see the MTA really get out from behind the bunker mentality and propose something big, bold and ambitious,” said Ben Fried, a spokesman for TransitCenter. “I think the rewards are going to be really substantial.”

I agree, once riders get used to it,they're going to appreciate the ease and the quickness of which they can travel around Queens (and to Brooklyn, etc).

12 hours ago, Via Garibaldi 8 said:

The authority attributed the most recent declines to the swift rise of competition from ride-hailing services, such as Uber TechnologiesInc., and to increased road congestion, which has slowed buses.

Yes, Uber gets across places much quicker. Increased road congestion has been caused by NYCDOT directly, and proliferation of Uber and Lyft drivers driving super slow and having no sense of direction.

One example is the Q4 and Q84. The Q84 can get between Merrick and the Cross Island Parkway faster than the Q4 because 120th Ave is wide and awesome, (and less commercial), where as the Q4 will get stopped every couple of blocks because of red signals (irritating), Q5 also.  Even the N4 is bogged down by the traffic signals, it used to zoom up Merrick from Hook Creek to Jamaica Center, passing so many NYCT buses. (The purple routes are going to help a lot).

12 hours ago, Via Garibaldi 8 said:

MTA officials will host a series of open houses to discuss the Queens proposal during January and February. They are expected to release a proposed final plan before the end of June that must then be voted on by the MTA board.

After Tuesday’s meeting, Mr. Byford said the process doesn’t have a specific end date, and that he hoped developing the plan would be a “model of consultation.”

When do they plan on implementing the final?

  

38 minutes ago, NY1635 said:

Why eliminate Sunday Service? Sunday is the one day of the week when buses actually run on time and people are far more relaxed. Any delays on routes is mostly caused by people shopping Queens Center Mall and the Rego Center. Those new  bus lanes and new traffic signals between Grand Avenue and 71st/Continental on Queens Blvd are what's causing most of the delays. The Q60 and other routes are now traveling on an orderly single file line with no space to manuver around on the Outer Lanes of Queens Blvd. It's now safe to cross Queens Blvd, but now buses are slower thanks to the lack of turns till a major intersection. 

There's also Traffic at the Five Towns Shopping Center and Green Acres Mall heading into Queens to consider. People love to shop till they drop during the day.  From what I've seen at Flushing, most shops are doing away with 24 or Midnight and closing up around 9pm-10pm the latest. Same goes for the shops at Jamaica except the Movie Theater and the Clubs. 

 

They said that ridership is low on Sundays, like 5 people per trip or something like that.

As for Green Acres, the traffic signals at Green Acres Rd and Hook Creek Blvd are the cause of congestion.  They're not green long enough to let traffic flow out of the area.  It might help a little bit if they turn that little Bus cut out, at the north east corner of Hook Creek and Sunrise Highway, and turn that into a Right turn on red lane.

Edited January 15, 2020 by N6 Limited

[Future ENY OP]

18 minutes ago, NY1635 said:

Why eliminate Sunday Service? Sunday is the one day of the week when buses actually run on time and people are far more relaxed. Any delays on routes is mostly caused by people shopping Queens Center Mall and the Rego Center. Those new  bus lanes and new traffic signals between Grand Avenue and 71st/Continental on Queens Blvd are what's causing most of the delays. The Q60 and other routes are now traveling on an orderly single file line with no space to manuver around on the Outer Lanes of Queens Blvd. It's now safe to cross Queens Blvd, but now buses are slower thanks to the lack of turns till a major intersection. 

There's also Traffic at the Five Towns Shopping Center and Green Acres Mall heading into Queens to consider. People love to shop till they drop during the day.  From what I've seen at Flushing, most shops are doing away with 24 or Midnight and closing up around 9pm-10pm the latest. Same goes for the shops at Jamaica except the Movie Theater and the Clubs. 

To the  right now. It’s simply a numbers game. They don’t care at this point if Sunday express service is cut in Queens. There are so many transit deserts throughout most of queens and that queens is so complex at this point to them is simply eliminate the premium service and force people on local buses and the trains. 

[Via Garibaldi 8]

22 minutes ago, N6 Limited said:

Right someone sees a line on a map and say "omg they're reducing service 20 min headway" but resources should be allocated accordingly.

I agree, once riders get used to it,they're going to appreciate the ease and the quickness of which they can travel around Queens (and to Brooklyn, etc).

I'm not sure why you are praising this plan, when it calls for considerable service cuts.  There is no way that people should be forced to wait ONE HOUR during RUSH HOUR for a bus, when they may wait every 20 - 30 minutes currently. That is not an improvement.  You are looking at just the routes. I am looking at the cuts to the service spans AND the frequencies and the fact that there are NO alternatives in some cases.  Cutting bus service at 9:30pm back to Queens is absurd, when buses currently run until 12:30am at night. That's a three hour cut to the span of service.

You also talked the need for more direct trips. Well riders will be forced to make more transfers under this plan, thus elongating their trips, so I'm not sure how this plan makes service more direct. The routes will be more direct, but service won't be more direct for the actual passengers.

Edited January 15, 2020 by Via Garibaldi 8

[N6 Limited]

Stops being a mile a part is what made the N6 Limited awesome and make the BX12,  M60, B46, Q25/53, Q113 awesome as well. Stops get removed and ridership increases.

 

Quote

29 minutes ago, GreatOne2k said:
Q44 losing weekend service after 9:30pm makes no sense

I agree, it helps avoid the subway and late night track work delays.
 

Edited January 15, 2020 by N6 Limited

[GreatOne2k]

Q44 losing weekend service after 9:30pm makes no sense

Edited January 15, 2020 by GreatOne2k

[BM5 via Woodhaven]

2 hours ago, N6 Limited said:

1. Right someone sees a line on a map and say "omg they're reducing service 20 min headway" but resources should be allocated accordingly.

2. The routes in Jackson Heights which are proposed to connect to each of the  stations, the MTA most likely has metrocard data which shows the majority transferring at those stations anyway, as opposed to staying on congested Roosevelt Ave until 74th st.

 

 

1. The premise for the grid network they're forcing on us was that offering more frequent service would reduce the impact of transferring, and the need for direct routes. I don't agree with a grid network for queens to begin with, but if they can't even get the frequency part sorted out properly, what was the point? 

 

2. That's just simply not true. The 90th Street station has no bus in the surrounding area, so nobody is transferring from anywhere. The Q49 only feeds in to because of the connections and the heavy commercial activity in that area. Also, have you seen the loads of people on the Q33 going to/from 74th Street? They beat the amount of people waiting at 82nd Street by a landslide. 

3 hours ago, NY1635 said:

Why eliminate Sunday Service? Sunday is the one day of the week when buses actually run on time and people are far more relaxed. Any delays on routes is mostly caused by people shopping Queens Center Mall and the Rego Center. Those new  bus lanes and new traffic signals between Grand Avenue and 71st/Continental on Queens Blvd are what's causing most of the delays. The Q60 and other routes are now traveling on an orderly single file line with no space to manuver around on the Outer Lanes of Queens Blvd. It's now safe to cross Queens Blvd, but now buses are slower thanks to the lack of turns till a major intersection. 

The issue at the malls is because of the lack of enforcement of the bus lanes. At Queens Center Mall, buses are constantly fighting to pull in and out of the bus stops because cars and taxis are hogging up space and idling there. When multiple routes show up and there's this idling, it causes more congestion.

[Interested Rider]

The whole Queens redesign comes aross to me as a political hit to cover up something else. 

In this case it is the ferries which are far more wasteful than the existing system and by doing something as crazy as what we have here, the focus will be on the multitiude of changes and not on the issue that should be the focus. The New York Post had an article on the cost of ferry service and in my opinion the cost is far higher per passenger than for local and express bus service. When an agency takes a long time to respond to Freedom of Information Law requests on something like ferry service where the information was avaiable, it becomes clear since it did not fit the goals of the mayor's agenda, the responses were "conveniently delayed" as on purpose. The practice is usually commonplace when the information that the person requesting it will harm the political goals of the agency or the elected official.

The mayor has signaled to the agency and his appointees that he plans to cut funding to the MTA and MTA bus and the penny pinchers must have had a heart attack. This is the end result of something that should have been divided into at least two different parts with Union Turnpike being a line of separation done at two different times as based on such a lage number of changes, The orders went down to come up with something like this disaster. I am not saying that changes did not have to be made quite the opposite but that by not doing the enitre borough of Queens, at one shot, the changes that should be made could have been done.   

It is quite clear that those who came up with this "redesign" are counting on the public just plain accepting it. That is not getting together with others and using everything to stop these changes now. The MTA will still try to ram through these changes even with public opposition and I would be very wary of any proposal to implement these changes after November 2020.

It is that time when a bigger can of worms will open thanks to our elected officials in Albany and City Hall.

6 minutes ago, N6 Limited said:

Stops being a mile a part is what made the N6 Limited awesome and make the BX12,  M60, B46, Q25/53, Q113 awesome as well. Stops get removed and ridership increases.

That may be fine for express and limited routes but for many local routes which carry  elderly riders like myself, it is totally wrong. 

You cannot use an arbitrary figure to determine whether a stop is needed or not as there are many stops that should remain close together especially with local routes are there are other factors that determine usage.

 

[bobtehpanda]

3 hours ago, NY1635 said:

The MTA had shut down Jamaica Center and Sutphin-Archer Avenue last year during nights and weekends to do repairs and give both stations a wash.

Subway Riders weren't happy with the  shuttle from Crescent Street or 121st Street ending only at Jamaica Hospital and being told to transfer to the  at Van Wyck during overnight hours.

 riders had it slightly easy in the sense that their shuttle ran from Jamaica Center to Union Turnpike, but the  shuttles pretty much took up most of the bays on Archer Ave from Parsons to 153rd. The poor signage and lack of directions didn't help. 

Flushing's problem is pretty much figuring out how to balance the loads coming from Corona going to or thru Flushing to get to points east, and people from Bayside, Fresh Meadows, Little Neck going to Flushing all without cramming themselves on the same . There's also Citi Field and US Open Patrons at Willets Point to consider.

I mean, the solution is "get the train past Flushing and Jamaica so buses don't have to go there in the first place". Of course, that's inconvenient for Misters "Look at my budget surpluses built on not investing in things."

[B35 via Church]

Million dollar question in that regard is - What are they using as a basis as to who they're so proclaiming they're making trips more direct for?

I'm sorry, but they are throwing out that term way too loosely; almost as if the word "direct" is being used as a nothing more than a mere buzzword to try to get folks to be on board with the plan.... The (final versions of the) routes will roll out whenever they will & the riders will eventually, actually determine whether the routes will be more direct for them...

As far as opting to making a grid out of Queens' network, well until we get more subway stations panning east of Flushing & Jamaica, opting to deconstruct the existing feeder networks based out of those 2 aforementioned areas, simply will not fly for far too many people....