R179 Discussion Thread

[VIP]

1 hour ago, subwaycommuter1983 said:

Because I've ride both lines very often along CPW, but I do have to admit that the r32's run faster than the r46's along CPW. I notice that every time I ride them. 

It’s not the train, it depends on who’s the Train operator. Some have better control than others when it comes to speed and braking. 

[AlgorithmOfTruth]

7 hours ago, subwaycommuter1983 said:

Because I've ride both lines very often along CPW, but I do have to admit that the R32's run faster than the R46's along CPW. I notice that every time I ride them. 

The R32s are significantly lighter than the R46s, so there is more lateral motion and buckling that gives off the impression that you're moving faster than you really are.

[RR503]

There is a good bit of equipment-driven variation in speed, but the R68s are by no means at the faster end of the spectrum, and VIP is right in saying that in most cases, that variability takes a back seat to operator variability. 

[bwwnyc123]

Subway Older cars R32/R42/R46/R62 and R62A/R68 and R68A all actually have around the same speeds. R46 and R68 just feels heavier but those cars could really go at speed sections.

All NTTs R142 and R142A and R188/R143/R160/R179 have about the same speeds but a little faster than the older cars.

Edited July 24, 2019 by bwwnyc123

[Amtrak706]

Just saw the latest 10-car set on a northbound test run at 181 St. It was running immediately behind the OG set (3010-3019) which was in revenue service.

“Insert other media” does not work at all so here is a link.

https://ibb.co/k1BfvBY

Edited July 24, 2019 by Amtrak706
This website is broken

[Around the Horn]

11 hours ago, VIP said:

Some have better control than others when it comes to speed and braking. 

Big case in point, the R68As. Everyone complains about how "slow" they are but when you get an operator who knows to move them they can be absolute rockets.

[RedLine]

Everything reaches the same maximum speed, but the R68s take forever to accelerate because they are underpowered.

[Bill from Maspeth]

There are a lot of variables to the speed of the train you are riding.  Yes, the operator has something to do with it, but not everything.  The R68/68A does take a bit longer to reach top speed because they are heavy cars.  If the t/o has the train in multiple (the third and final point of power) it doesn't matter who the t/o is.  On any train, if you have a dead motor or more, it will affect the speed. 

When the train gets into a grade time area are you will feel/see the greatest variability.  That has all to do with the experience level of the t/o, if he's working his regular line and how long he has been working the line.  Some guys feel more comfortable running slower in grade time areas than others, perhaps till they are more experienced.  Don't forget: many of you are riding around for entertainment purposes.  For the t/o it's a J-O-B.  He/she has himself to support and most likely has dependents.  They don't want to take a chance and challenge timers; they don't want to fly into a station becasue they are afraid they will put a door panel or a car out of the station.  They need the job so they are not going to save a few seconds and jeopardize it.

[RR503]

3 hours ago, RedLine said:

Everything reaches the same maximum speed, but the R68s take forever to accelerate because they are underpowered.

The 46s and 68s do in fact reach lower top speeds than newer equipment -- ride across the flats and you'll see this. It all goes back to the traction control mods in the 90s, the clunkiness of rheostatic DC traction control, and the comparatively high adherence of cars with AC traction to the spec'd accel curve

This does, of course, cut both ways. Stopping NTTs is a royal pain when the rails are in any way wet, so you lose runtime there in bad weather/under slippery rail. 

[subwaycommuter1983]

Thank you guys for clarifying the information about train speeds.

40 minutes ago, Bill from Maspeth said:

There are a lot of variables to the speed of the train you are riding.  Yes, the operator has something to do with it, but not everything.  The R68/68A does take a bit longer to reach top speed because they are heavy cars.  If the t/o has the train in multiple (the third and final point of power) it doesn't matter who the t/o is.  On any train, if you have a dead motor or more, it will affect the speed. 

When the train gets into a grade time area are you will feel/see the greatest variability.  That has all to do with the experience level of the t/o, if he's working his regular line and how long he has been working the line.  Some guys feel more comfortable running slower in grade time areas than others, perhaps till they are more experienced.  Don't forget: many of you are riding around for entertainment purposes.  For the t/o it's a J-O-B.  He/she has himself to support and most likely has dependents.  They don't want to take a chance and challenge timers; they don't want to fly into a station becasue they are afraid they will put a door panel or a car out of the station.  They need the job so they are not going to save a few seconds and jeopardize it.

I agree 100%. As a subway commuter (Lol!!!), I do wish for better subway service. But, I do believe safety is #1 priority for everybody.

In fact, I posted a video a while ago about the Williamsburg Bridge crash that happened in 1995. I know many of you weren't born at that time (Lol!),but I remember that terrible accident and trust me guys we don't want a repeat of that.

[Bill from Maspeth]

2 hours ago, subwaycommuter1983 said:

Thank you guys for clarifying the information about train speeds.

I agree 100%. As a subway commuter (Lol!!!), I do wish for better subway service. But, I do believe safety is #1 priority for everybody.

In fact, I posted a video a while ago about the Williamsburg Bridge crash that happened in 1995. I know many of you weren't born at that time (Lol!),but I remember that terrible accident and trust me guys we don't want a repeat of that.

I remember that day.  I also was working the J.  We passed each other at Alabama Ave.  He was Manhattan bound, I was Jamaica bound.  By the time I got to Parsons, all hell broke loose on the line.

[AlgorithmOfTruth]

3 hours ago, Bill from Maspeth said:

There are a lot of variables to the speed of the train you are riding.  Yes, the operator has something to do with it, but not everything. The R68/68A does take a bit longer to reach top speed because they are heavy cars. If the T/O has the train in multiple (the third and final point of power) it doesn't matter who the T/O is. On any train, if you have a dead motor or more, it will affect the speed. 

When the train gets into a grade time area are you will feel/see the greatest variability. That has all to do with the experience level of the T/O, if he's working his regular line and how long he has been working the line. Some guys feel more comfortable running slower in grade time areas than others, perhaps till they are more experienced. Don't forget: many of you are riding around for entertainment purposes. For the T/O it's a J-O-B. He/she has himself to support and most likely has dependents. They don't want to take a chance and challenge timers; they don't want to fly into a station becasue they are afraid they will put a door panel or a car out of the station. They need the job so they are not going to save a few seconds and jeopardize it.

From what I've seen, you need to have a balance of confidence and experience on your line to be an efficient T/O. Not too confident to the point where you're cocky, but confident enough that you aren't afraid to operate. For example, I was on a Brooklyn-bound  train one day and had the most anxious T/O I've ever seen. We pull out of Fordham Road and head toward 182nd-183rd Streets. He makes about 10 separate brake applications that jerk everyone around before we reach the 10-car marker at 182nd-183rd Streets. He gets indication from his C/R and we make the approach to Tremont Avenue. We get up to around 10 MPH and he panics as we approach the yellow-over-S before the two-shot behind it. HARD BRAKING ensues. We must've made it down that slope at close to 0 speed before we actually reached Tremont Avenue. Needless to say, the rest of the trip went on in a similar fashion. If a T/O is that scared to operate, I don't see them lasting long! (Chronic lateness) This isn't to say that you shouldn't be cautious, but know your line, be familiar with how the timers behave, and be confident in your operation. 

[RR503]

47 minutes ago, AlgorithmOfTruth said:

From what I've seen, you need to have a balance of confidence and experience on your line to be an efficient T/O. Not too confident to the point where you're cocky, but confident enough that you aren't afraid to operate. For example, I was on a Brooklyn-bound  train one day and had the most anxious T/O I've ever seen. We pull out of Fordham Road and head toward 182nd-183rd Streets. He makes about 10 separate brake applications that jerk everyone around before we reach the 10-car marker at 182nd-183rd Streets. He gets indication from his C/R and we make the approach to Tremont Avenue. We get up to around 10 MPH and he panics as we approach the yellow-over-S before the two-shot behind it. HARD BRAKING ensues. We must've made it down that slope at close to 0 speed before we actually reached Tremont Avenue. Needless to say, the rest of the trip went on in a similar fashion. If a T/O is that scared to operate, I don't see them lasting long! (Chronic lateness) This isn't to say that you shouldn't be cautious, but know your line, be familiar with how the timers behave, and be confident in your operation. 

I’ve also been told that, to a point of course, you get better control of your train’s stopping if you enter a station at high(er) speed.

Generally, I’m extremely sympathetic to TOs who operate cautiously because of the militaristic discipline culture that’s evolved over the years, but I also think we can’t be cavalier about the impacts of losing a few seconds per station. The difference in berthing time between a confident and a cautious TO is easily 8-10 seconds — which quickly becomes minutes as you carry the difference across an entire line. Like much else, though, really fixing this issue would require a decently potent rethink of labor relations at MTA...

[R32 3838]

On 7/23/2019 at 2:24 PM, VIP said:

Coney Island barn.

207th st overhaul shop with no front bonnet. Being re-welded

[VIP]

2 hours ago, R32 3838 said:

207th st overhaul shop with no front bonnet. Being re-welded

That is correct. I mixed up the barns. Thank You.

[Evan the Tourist]

I had a great time riding the Subway in the previous 5 days to get me where I needed in the Big Apple.  I was able to catch an R179 on the on three different occasions in my long weekend trip.  I enjoyed taking those awesome trains back to the Rockaways where I stayed.  I even rode a few R179s on the .  Keep up the great work MTA.  I'll be back for another vacation next spring, but I might stay on the QBL.

[4 via Mosholu]

18 hours ago, AlgorithmOfTruth said:

From what I've seen, you need to have a balance of confidence and experience on your line to be an efficient T/O. Not too confident to the point where you're cocky, but confident enough that you aren't afraid to operate. For example, I was on a Brooklyn-bound  train one day and had the most anxious T/O I've ever seen. We pull out of Fordham Road and head toward 182nd-183rd Streets. He makes about 10 separate brake applications that jerk everyone around before we reach the 10-car marker at 182nd-183rd Streets. He gets indication from his C/R and we make the approach to Tremont Avenue. We get up to around 10 MPH and he panics as we approach the yellow-over-S before the two-shot behind it. HARD BRAKING ensues. We must've made it down that slope at close to 0 speed before we actually reached Tremont Avenue. Needless to say, the rest of the trip went on in a similar fashion. If a T/O is that scared to operate, I don't see them lasting long! (Chronic lateness) This isn't to say that you shouldn't be cautious, but know your line, be familiar with how the timers behave, and be confident in your operation. 

I think I must have faced the same situation myself when I was coming home on the train three nights ago on a heavy downpour. The Mosholu driver there was just running slowly in the Bronx within about 20mph, even when the slowdown started from north of 86th Street in Manhattan. He was slow entering 125th, mind you. When it was switching to the west track entering Woodlawn, it kept stopping before continuing for about three, maybe four or five times before getting to the end of the third rail just before the bumper block there, whereupon he activated the handbrake and left the train so that the next crew would take over. The driver for the run to New Lots Avenue really knew his line pretty well, because after the conductor announced on the intercom that the next stop was Mosholu Parkway and closed the doors in the process, he just pushed the lever forward and it left Woodlawn in short order without putting the lever in neutral first, since the R142A that I was in came very late to Woodlawn.

Edited July 25, 2019 by 4 via Mosholu
minor edit.

[N6 Limited]

Just got off a Far rockaway bound r179 train. When did they start running on the (A)? 

[Amtrak706]

29 minutes ago, N6 Limited said:

Just got off a Far rockaway bound r179 train. When did they start running on the (A)? 

Four months ago

[biGC323232]

53 minutes ago, N6 Limited said:

Just got off a Far rockaway bound r179 train. When did they start running on the (A)? 

Several months ago...I haven't rode the R179 on the  yet....Just on the   so far...

[Jchambers2120]

2 hours ago, 4 via Mosholu said:

I think I must have faced the same situation myself when I was coming home on the train three nights ago on a heavy downpour. The Mosholu driver there was just running slowly in the Bronx within about 20mph, even when the slowdown started from north of 86th Street in Manhattan. He was slow entering 125th, mind you. When it was switching to the west track entering Woodlawn, it kept stopping before continuing for about three, maybe four or five times before getting to the end of the third rail just before the bumper block there, whereupon he activated the handbrake and left the train so that the next crew would take over. The driver for the run to New Lots Avenue really knew his line pretty well, because after the conductor announced on the intercom that the next stop was Mosholu Parkway and closed the doors in the process, he just pushed the lever forward and it left Woodlawn in short order without putting the lever in neutral first, since the R142A that I was in came very late to Woodlawn.

Tech trains are known to slide in inclement weather, and if I’m not mistaken the speed limit over switches is 10MPH (maybe a t/o can correct me if I’m wrong?). The train operator (we don’t have drivers) was doing exactly what he/she was supposed to, keep their train under control. Also tech trains don’t have handbrakes.

To the comment you were quoting maybe the train itself had long brakes, dead poor braking train, motors, t/o unfamiliar with the line, etc... All of these comments critiquing when y’all don’t know the half of it.

Drifting too far off topic. I hope they do some mods to make the announcements play faster and fix the issue with the announcements not being able to be heard from inside the cab. 

[4 via Mosholu]

6 minutes ago, Jchambers2120 said:

Also tech trains don’t have handbrakes.

They do have handbrakes; it is only encased within the lever that controls the brakes.

[RR503]

2 hours ago, Jchambers2120 said:

Tech trains are known to slide in inclement weather, and if I’m not mistaken the speed limit over switches is 10MPH (maybe a t/o can correct me if I’m wrong?). The train operator (we don’t have drivers) was doing exactly what he/she was supposed to, keep their train under control. Also tech trains don’t have handbrakes.

Switches are 10 unless posted otherwise. I believe Woodlawn was recently resigned to 15, but that may be outbound so don't quote me on that. 

Usually the reason for stopping and starting at stub terminals is the insanely slow GTs they put in approaching the bumper for the obvious safety reasons. Even the most aggressive of TOs will crawl through those, so there's really only shades of slow up there.

[N6 Limited]

3 hours ago, Amtrak706 said:

Four months ago

I see, I haven't been riding the IND as much as I used to.

3 hours ago, biGC323232 said:

Several months ago...I haven't rode the R179 on the  yet....Just on the   so far...

Before today I've been on  and R179s but not s

[Bill from Maspeth]

On ‎7‎/‎24‎/‎2019 at 7:30 PM, AlgorithmOfTruth said:

From what I've seen, you need to have a balance of confidence and experience on your line to be an efficient T/O. Not too confident to the point where you're cocky, but confident enough that you aren't afraid to operate. For example, I was on a Brooklyn-bound  train one day and had the most anxious T/O I've ever seen. We pull out of Fordham Road and head toward 182nd-183rd Streets. He makes about 10 separate brake applications that jerk everyone around before we reach the 10-car marker at 182nd-183rd Streets. He gets indication from his C/R and we make the approach to Tremont Avenue. We get up to around 10 MPH and he panics as we approach the yellow-over-S before the two-shot behind it. HARD BRAKING ensues. We must've made it down that slope at close to 0 speed before we actually reached Tremont Avenue. Needless to say, the rest of the trip went on in a similar fashion. If a T/O is that scared to operate, I don't see them lasting long! (Chronic lateness) This isn't to say that you shouldn't be cautious, but know your line, be familiar with how the timers behave, and be confident in your operation. 

That kind of operation won't be tolerated whence a TSS is riding his train one day.