BUS - Random Thoughts Thread

[LegoBrickBreaker101]

44 minutes ago, Lawrence St said:

Bx99 to be discontinued on June 10th, 2021.

Same as the B99 and I’d assume the M99, just saw some signs posted up along 8th Avenue

[Calvin]

All late night 99 routes will end service on the 9th of June, Wednesday after 5 AM. The 10th is the day they are discontinued for service. 

Edited June 3, 2021 by Calvin

[BM5 via Woodhaven]

1 hour ago, Lawrence St said:

Bx99 to be discontinued on June 10th, 2021.

 

46 minutes ago, LegoBrickBreaker101 said:

Same as the B99 and I’d assume the M99, just saw some signs posted up along 8th Avenue

 

45 minutes ago, Calvin said:

All late night 99 routes will end service on the 9th of June, Wednesday after 5 AM. The 10th is the day they are discontinued for service. 

Not only the 99 routes, but a bunch of other routes with enhanced overnight service. It's on the MTA website: https://new.mta.info/coronavirus/overnight

There are several routes which apparently will retain the existing enhanced overnight service (as they don't mirror subways, or mirror them enough based on the description).

The Bronx

• Bx15 (every 10-20 minutes)
• Bx19 & Bx21 (every 22.5 minutes)

Brooklyn

• B8, B44 Local, B46 Local, B61, B68 (every 20 minutes)
• B38, B63 (every 22.5 minutes), 

Manhattan

• M2, M7 (every 20 min weekdays, every 30 min weekends)
• M15 (every 15 minutes)
• M102 (Weekdays Only, every 20 minutes)
• M104 (Weekdays Only, every 22.5 minutes)

Queens

• Q24, Q53 SBS (every 20 minutes)
• Q65 (every 15-20 minutes)
• Q60, Q66 (every 15 minutes)

I checked TripPlanner for June 17th for some of the buses listed above (Q53, Q60, B44, B46), and the enhanced overnight schedule are still available on that day. 

Edited June 3, 2021 by BM5 via Woodhaven

[Via Garibaldi 8]

I just received word from 2 Broadway earlier today that all overnight express bus service that was provided due to the subway shutdown will be ending as of June 10th. I am trying to appeal to see if any of the earlier 5am trips can be kept, as I know the earlier AM trips have been seeing decent ridership, especially on the BM lines.

Edited June 3, 2021 by Via Garibaldi 8

[Lex]

1 hour ago, Via Garibaldi 8 said:

I just received word from 2 Broadway earlier today that all overnight express bus service that was provided due to the subway shutdown will be ending as of June 10th. I am trying to appeal to see if any of the earlier 5am trips can be kept, as I know the earlier AM trips have been seeing decent ridership, especially on the BM lines.

Good luck with that. The absolute most I can see the MTA doing there is running B103 short-turns.

[Via Garibaldi 8]

8 minutes ago, Lex said:

Good luck with that. The absolute most I can see the MTA doing there is running B103 short-turns.

We're not asking them to keep all of the service. We're asking them to keep two trips, one of which riders in my group have been asking for since before COVID, that being an earlier BM2 from Canarsie.

-5am BM2 to Midtown

-5am BxM4 to Midtown

That 5:40am BM2 trip does well every day. Screen shot from this morning... As more offices open, we expect that bus to continue to become more crowded. The 5am BxM4 trip would benefit a lot of the construction workers from Woodlawn, and hospital workers that get on further south in Norwood, Bedford Park, etc.

Edited June 3, 2021 by Via Garibaldi 8

[GreatOne2k]

The should keep the Bx39 below Pelham Parkway, now riders are going to be stranded with few late night options.

[Lex]

Scrapping overnight service on the Q22 and Bx1 is entirely predictable.

I'm still mentally facepalming.

[Future ENY OP]

46 minutes ago, Lex said:

Scrapping overnight service on the Q22 and Bx1 is entirely predictable.

I'm still mentally facepalming.

I got one for you.  The B11 enhanced overnight service. 
 

But, what’s this 22 1/2 minute thing with the B38 and B65. Just make the service at 25 minutes. Reality 25 mins is more like 50 minutes before a bus shows up. 

[checkmatechamp13]

42 minutes ago, Future ENY OP said:

I got one for you.  The B11 enhanced overnight service.

But, what’s this 22 1/2 minute thing with the B38 and B65. Just make the service at 25 minutes. Reality 25 mins is more like 50 minutes before a bus shows up. 

The old headway was 45 minutes so they're basically saying half the old headway.

[Lex]

29 minutes ago, Future ENY OP said:

I got one for you.  The B11 enhanced overnight service. 
 

But, what’s this 22 1/2 minute thing with the B38 and B65. Just make the service at 25 minutes. Reality 25 mins is more like 50 minutes before a bus shows up. 

I simply didn't mention that one, as it's easier to justify not running overnight, even though I honestly would.

[Via Garibaldi 8]

2 hours ago, Lex said:

Scrapping overnight service on the Q22 and Bx1 is entirely predictable.

I'm still mentally facepalming.

They have been cancelling overnight service on so many lines that it basically doesn't run anyway, so if they don't have drivers, no point in keeping a service that only exists on paper. Basically every night, they give a rundown of tons of local buses where almost all of the service is cancelled.

[WorkerX]

On 6/3/2021 at 3:52 PM, BM5 via Woodhaven said:

The Bronx

• Bx15 (every 10-20 minutes)
• Bx19 & Bx21 (every 22.5 minutes)

Manhattan

• M2, M7 (every 20 min weekdays, every 30 min weekends)
• M15 (every 15 minutes)
• M102 (Weekdays Only, every 20 minutes)
• M104 (Weekdays Only, every 22.5 minutes) 

Outside of the M104, I know all these buses run right past major hospitals, so maybe that's why they are keeping enhanced service. Maybe the M104 is being kept for St Luke's, but a block off from Broadway 

[MeeP15-9112]

Apparently the MTA thinks that half of Nassau County is no mans land as seen on the Queens borough bus map.

Also, it seems as of this error was never corrected as it was also found on the 2003 borough bus map!

 

Image

Edited June 5, 2021 by MeeP15-9112

[Future ENY OP]

40 minutes ago, MeeP15-9112 said:

Apparently the MTA thinks that half of Nassau County is no mans land as seen on the Queens borough bus map.

Also, it seems as of this error was never corrected as it was also found on the 2003 borough bus map!

 

Image

When did the MTA get rid of Long Island Bus again? and also the TA has no business of filling in the bus strips for Nassau in the Queens Borough bus map with exceptions to the Q5- Green Acres, Q46: LIJ Hospital- Lakeville Road, the QM buses that go into North Shore Towers, Q2- Belmont Park and the Q36 that goes into Floral Park Long Island portion.  Once the revives the Queens restructuring plan there are plans for some lines to enter Nassau County. Uncertain to the extent on where they will enter.

On an unrelated topic: I noticed that none of the Kingsbridge LFS that came in haven't been in service in the last few weeks or at least tracking. However, Manhattanville and 100th Street have been using their buses.

Edited June 5, 2021 by Future ENY OP

[Kingsbridgeviewer382]

22 minutes ago, Future ENY OP said:

When did the MTA get rid of Long Island Bus again? and also the TA has no business of filling in the bus strips for Nassau in the Queens Borough bus map with exceptions to the Q5- Green Acres, Q46: LIJ Hospital- Lakeville Road, the QM buses that go into North Shore Towers, Q2- Belmont Park and the Q36 that goes into Floral Park Long Island portion.  Once the revives the Queens restructuring plan there are plans for some lines to enter Nassau County. Uncertain to the extent on where they will enter.

On an unrelated topic: I noticed that none of the Kingsbridge LFS that came in haven't been in service in the last few weeks or at least tracking. However, Manhattanville and 100th Street have been using their buses.

NICE started service in January 2012.

And yes, the Kingsbridge Nova Hybrids have not seen service in a while.

[QM1to6Ave]

Props to the B/O I had yesterday on the QM5 during the height of the hail/monsoon storm...he drove safely and as fast as conditions allowed, all while talking to the dispatcher on the radio about which runs he would cover on overtime later that night!

It actually made me wonder if B/Os are technically supposed to pull over when talking on the radio, but I didn't care lol, this guy was on the ball, and looked calm as hell the whole time. 

[Via Garibaldi 8]

On 6/3/2021 at 8:44 AM, jammerbot said:

Is there some sort of record-keeping system for bus reliability? For example, I noticed that, anecdotally at least, the B1 is generally on or close to schedule, whereas the B3 is always a mess. The B3 often has busses bunched up in twos or threes, with 30 minute gaps in service and then two or three busses all at once. I wonder if there is a database that keeps track of this. 

 

On 6/3/2021 at 9:49 AM, ParkerTheM7 said:

I also wonder if there is a sitee showing the load factors for routes too

There is. When I met with the  , one of the meetings we had, we discussed their dashboard. It is public, and I was encouraged to have a look at it. Here it is: 

https://new.mta.info/transparency/metrics

I would take the data with a grain of salt. The figures can easily be manipulated, since the  relies heavily on reports. I don't think those reports are actually scrutinized most of the time.

9 hours ago, Future ENY OP said:

When did the MTA get rid of Long Island Bus again? and also the TA has no business of filling in the bus strips for Nassau in the Queens Borough bus map with exceptions to the Q5- Green Acres, Q46: LIJ Hospital- Lakeville Road, the QM buses that go into North Shore Towers, Q2- Belmont Park and the Q36 that goes into Floral Park Long Island portion.  Once the revives the Queens restructuring plan there are plans for some lines to enter Nassau County. Uncertain to the extent on where they will enter.

The North Shore Towers is technically in Queens in Floral Park, at least most of it anyway (the rest technically is on Long Island), despite the "Lake Success" destination signage. The QM6... The  approached the North Shore Towers about it, that is the QM6 entering the grounds, and they agreed to the express bus only, not the Q46. That is why the express bus only runs there, and it stops right outside of each building for the pick-up and drop-off.

Edited June 6, 2021 by Via Garibaldi 8

[Future ENY OP]

7 minutes ago, Via Garibaldi 8 said:

 

There is. When I met with the  , one of the meetings we had, we discussed their dashboard. It is public, and I was encouraged to have a look at it. Here it is: 

https://new.mta.info/transparency/metrics

I would take the data with a grain of salt. The figures can easily be manipulated, since the  relies heavily on reports. I don't think those reports are actually scrutinized most of the time.

The North Shore Towers is technically in Queens in Floral Park, at least most of it anyway (the rest technically is on Long Island), despite the "Lake Success" destination signage. The QM6... The  approached the North Shore Towers about it, that is the QM6 entering the grounds, and they agreed to the express bus only, not the Q46. That is why the express bus only runs there, and it stops right outside of each building for the pick-up and drop-off.

Appreciate the clarification. 

[checkmatechamp13]

9 hours ago, Future ENY OP said:

When did the MTA get rid of Long Island Bus again? and also the TA has no business of filling in the bus strips for Nassau in the Queens Borough bus map with exceptions to the Q5- Green Acres, Q46: LIJ Hospital- Lakeville Road, the QM buses that go into North Shore Towers, Q2- Belmont Park and the Q36 that goes into Floral Park Long Island portion.  Once the revives the Queens restructuring plan there are plans for some lines to enter Nassau County. Uncertain to the extent on where they will enter.

On an unrelated topic: I noticed that none of the Kingsbridge LFS that came in haven't been in service in the last few weeks or at least tracking. However, Manhattanville and 100th Street have been using their buses.

By that logic, no NICE buses should cross the border, and there should basically be zero connectivity between NICE & NYCT. 

On 6/3/2021 at 9:49 AM, ParkerTheM7 said:

I also wonder if there is a site showing the load factors for routes too

The Existing Conditions Report for the Brooklyn Bus Redesign has that information: https://new.mta.info/document/14101

Page 160-161 have on-time performance data, and starting from page 172, you have the route profiles.

Here is some data for all boroughs from October 2014: http://nathan9.github.io/nycbusperformance/#2014-10

[SoSpectacular]

7 hours ago, QM1to6Ave said:

It actually made me wonder if B/Os are technically supposed to pull over when talking on the radio, but I didn't care lol, this guy was on the ball, and looked calm as hell the whole time. 

Yes. Current procedure is to pull over the bus at the nearest location/bus stop to use the radio. Not always feasible because no one wants a beeping radio with "CALL" flashing endlessly until you pick up...

[SoSpectacular]

On 6/3/2021 at 8:44 AM, jammerbot said:

Is there some sort of record-keeping system for bus reliability? For example, I noticed that, anecdotally at least, the B1 is generally on or close to schedule, whereas the B3 is always a mess. The B3 often has busses bunched up in twos or threes, with 30 minute gaps in service and then two or three busses all at once. I wonder if there is a database that keeps track of this. 

All that information is tracked. Almost every operating parameter of the bus in question is being recorded by an internal system.

As for that other thing, some routes have problematic areas that will more often than not drastically affect performance- this could be things such as tight two-way streets, heavily trafficked areas, or simple obstructions like double parked vehicles blocking the way- some notable locations from personal experience can be Manhattan Avenue from Driggs to Greenpoint Avenues or 5th Avenue between Dean and Garfield Place which are pretty tight streets and double parked trucks/cars make it excruciatingly difficult to get ahead.

There's also Church Avenue, or Nostrand/Rogers where traffic can get pretty stupid, or on the B11 cutting through 49th or 50th streets or Avenue J where you'll barely get by at a snail's pace between Coney Island and Avenue J. Things always happen. The schedules aren't dynamic so there's no way to really adjust times on the fly. Some of us will likely blow the layover period and call a personal to get some recovery/bathroom time. All part of the job. Most won't really understand that.

Operators who really know their stuff will be able to anticipate these kinds of delays and adjust accordingly in  a safe manner, while others may just hang back until a suitable opportunity presents itself. Like the reports for the bus redesign mention, a lot of the slowdowns happened starting in 2014, when services like Uber and Lyft exploded in the cities and the start of Vision Zero (although that was late in the year, but the increased slowdown of traffic due to all the sweeping changes and people still refusing to give up on driving seem to make it all the more worse).

[Via Garibaldi 8]

6 hours ago, SoSpectacular said:

All that information is tracked. Almost every operating parameter of the bus in question is being recorded by an internal system.

As for that other thing, some routes have problematic areas that will more often than not drastically affect performance- this could be things such as tight two-way streets, heavily trafficked areas, or simple obstructions like double parked vehicles blocking the way- some notable locations from personal experience can be Manhattan Avenue from Driggs to Greenpoint Avenues or 5th Avenue between Dean and Garfield Place which are pretty tight streets and double parked trucks/cars make it excruciatingly difficult to get ahead.

There's also Church Avenue, or Nostrand/Rogers where traffic can get pretty stupid, or on the B11 cutting through 49th or 50th streets or Avenue J where you'll barely get by at a snail's pace between Coney Island and Avenue J. Things always happen. The schedules aren't dynamic so there's no way to really adjust times on the fly. Some of us will likely blow the layover period and call a personal to get some recovery/bathroom time. All part of the job. Most won't really understand that.

Operators who really know their stuff will be able to anticipate these kinds of delays and adjust accordingly in  a safe manner, while others may just hang back until a suitable opportunity presents itself. Like the reports for the bus redesign mention, a lot of the slowdowns happened starting in 2014, when services like Uber and Lyft exploded in the cities and the start of Vision Zero (although that was late in the year, but the increased slowdown of traffic due to all the sweeping changes and people still refusing to give up on driving seem to make it all the more worse).

All true, but that doesn't mean that their metrics aren't manipulated. The dashboard for most routes generally have numbers that are not in line with what passengers are experiencing in terms of how unreliable the service is. With all of the trips that aren't running, the numbers don't add up.  For some lines, they had no metrics at all until they were audited by the City Comptroller, so it's not like they've been so on it over these years. Worst off is with all of the data they have now, they are not addressing certain issues that they could, such as adjusting schedules, despite the ongoing complaints from customers for them to do so, so when the same lines have excess time over and over, and they promise to update the schedules, but don't, all of these things mean worst service for the riders. They could be doing a hell of a lot more than what they are.

You talk about things that could drastically affect the performance of some routes, yet their metrics don't reflect any of it. Performance wise, most lines look like they are stellar on paper, and that's the problem.

 

Edited June 6, 2021 by Via Garibaldi 8

[ParkerTheM7]

13 hours ago, checkmatechamp13 said:

By that logic, no NICE buses should cross the border, and there should basically be zero connectivity between NICE & NYCT. 

The Existing Conditions Report for the Brooklyn Bus Redesign has that information: https://new.mta.info/document/14101

Page 160-161 have on-time performance data, and starting from page 172, you have the route profiles.

Here is some data for all boroughs from October 2014: http://nathan9.github.io/nycbusperformance/#2014-10

Thanks. Yea, I liked how they set up the Brooklyn Route Profiles, I wish they did it for all the boroughs.

[SoSpectacular]

2 hours ago, Via Garibaldi 8 said:

All true, but that doesn't mean that their metrics aren't manipulated. The dashboard for most routes generally have numbers that are not in line with what passengers are experiencing in terms of how unreliable the service is. With all of the trips that aren't running, the numbers don't add up.  For some lines, they had no metrics at all until they were audited by the City Comptroller, so it's not like they've been so on it over these years. Worst off is with all of the data they have now, they are not addressing certain issues that they could, such as adjusting schedules, despite the ongoing complaints from customers for them to do so, so when the same lines have excess time over and over, and they promise to update the schedules, but don't, all of these things mean worst service for the riders. They could be doing a hell of a lot more than what they are.

You talk about things that could drastically affect the performance of some routes, yet their metrics don't reflect any of it. Performance wise, most lines look like they are stellar on paper, and that's the problem.

 

You're forgetting that with COVID the fears are very real, not to mention the uptick in assaults in employees that are causing the shortages- we've got people out on FMLA, those that call out sick, senior drivers retiring quicker, all that's going down faster then they can replace. We all know no one pays attention to things unless they become a problem since that's how things have worked for decades- imagine the surprise when Transit started putting down the number of riders on a given bus at any time along a route. Not even the operators knew that there were devices automatically tracking people getting on or off! 

People complain for changes in the schedule to account for all these variables but they don't usually change things in the middle of a pick- and even then that takes considerable time and effort to figure out where things need changing, adjusting runs to account for it (especially this because some operators don't like when runs change or get chopped) and making sure the buses can run as close to schedule as possible.

Since the pandemic the road conditions have gotten worse as more people have turned to driving cars adding to the usual traffic woes. Not much can be done there...