MTA Bus Operations: Fleet & Depots

[JeremiahC99]

1 hour ago, East New York said:

17 additional artics. The B44+ needs more than it has now during the school season. 

During normal school season rush hour you can easily have about 40 standards out there at a time. Some in transit, some deadheading, and other on layover or swing. 

So the 17 additional artics are for B46+ while the B44+ will get 2 additional artic buses?

[aemoreira81]

On 7/31/2018 at 1:00 PM, JeremiahC99 said:

So the 17 additional artics are for B46+ while the B44+ will get 2 additional artic buses?

It's also possible that with XD60s, the LFSs and the XD60s can be in one pool together. Now, as for the XD40, I would wonder if the Bx41 could use rigid SBS buses for greater frequency, as frequency appears to be lacking there.

[East New York]

14 hours ago, aemoreira81 said:

It's also possible that with XD60s, the LFSs and the XD60s can be in one pool together. Now, as for the XD40, I would wonder if the Bx41 could use rigid SBS buses for greater frequency, as frequency appears to be lacking there.

No that’s not possible for them to be in one pool. The only depots that will have mixed fleets are MaBSTOA Depots for the time being. Quill, Tuskeegee, Gun Hill, and Kingsbridge.

All of the LFSA’s are leaving Flatbush and Hale, as they did Casey Stengel.

And any line can use a rigid bus for increased service. Doesn’t look like TA wants to make an increase tho.

[Autocar]

Having been in this hobby for over 50 years, it never seems to amaze me at the stupidity at MTA/NYCT. Whether it's scrapping first [ buses or trains] and ask questions later and now it's the fact that they seem to be buying more and more artics yet when the weather gets bad with snow/sleet/ice they are the first buses that are taken off the roads in favor of the standard size buses. Can anybody explain to me the rational behind their logic ?

[Brillant93]

9 minutes ago, Autocar said:

Having been in this hobby for over 50 years, it never seems to amaze me at the stupidity at MTA/NYCT. Whether it's scrapping first [ buses or trains] and ask questions later and now it's the fact that they seem to be buying more and more artics yet when the weather gets bad with snow/sleet/ice they are the first buses that are taken off the roads in favor of the standard size buses. Can anybody explain to me the rational behind their logic ?

To my knowledge there’s over 600 new standard buses they’re ordering and very less of the artics. The D60 artics are on their way along with the RTS and OG Orion’s in time. The MTA has to update their fleet as a lot of those buses are working past their useful life time. They’re not replacing standards in favor of artics. If a line is converted to artics it’s because it’s most likely needed for that route. 

[JeremiahC99]

3 hours ago, Brillant93 said:

To my knowledge there’s over 600 new standard buses they’re ordering and very less of the artics. The D60 artics are on their way along with the RTS and OG Orion’s in time. The MTA has to update their fleet as a lot of those buses are working past their useful life time. They’re not replacing standards in favor of artics. If a line is converted to artics it’s because it’s most likely needed for that route. 

And even if they did replace standards with artics (which I don't see happening for the time being), what additional routes, beside the Bx6 (local and SBS), B35, B82 in the future, and some B46 SBS tips, would you convert to artic operations?

Edited August 2, 2018 by JeremiahC99

[BreeddekalbL]

18 hours ago, JeremiahC99 said:

And even if they did replace standards with artics (which I don't see happening for the time being), what additional routes, beside the Bx6 (local and SBS), B35, B82 in the future, and some B46 SBS tips, would you convert to artic operations?

arent they gonna try to convert a ridgewood to downtown brooklyn route? with sbs (better not be the B38)

[LegoBrickBreaker101]

7 minutes ago, BreeddekalbL said:

arent they gonna try to convert a ridgewood to downtown brooklyn route? with sbs (better not be the B38)

IIRC that was supposed to be a brand new route, but there weren't a lot of details released about it.

[Express Bus Operator]

20 hours ago, JeremiahC99 said:

And even if they did replace standards with artics (which I don't see happening for the time being), what additional routes, beside the Bx6 (local and SBS), B35, B82 in the future, and some B46 SBS tips, would you convert to artic operations?

B41 sbs and artic buses woukd not be an issue to operate over there

[Jdog14]

26 minutes ago, DueceDrives said:

B41 sbs and artic buses woukd not be an issue to operate over there

Does the B41 needs artics? The 41 seems to have many of the same issues the old B46 Limited had

[EastFlatbushLarry]

22 hours ago, Jdog14 said:

Does the B41 needs artics? The 41 seems to have many of the same issues the old B46 Limited had

tbh the current set up of the B41 Limited is nothing like the old 46 limited (especially the pm rush) they've absolutely decimated the 41, specifically the limiteds to an unrecognizable shell of it's former self. I've argued in the past that the way in which the 41 is being mismanaged by the consistent chopping of runs, is that management's plan is to eventually run artics on Flatbush av. the headways for both the local & limited separately leave little to be desired, driving people to utilize dollar vans & the B103. at least the old 46 limited had reasonable headways, and even then, with all the people who utilized the utica corridor, the dollar vans were/are still able to maintain their own business. 

[EastFlatbushLarry]

23 hours ago, LegoBrickBreaker101 said:

IIRC that was supposed to be a brand new route, but there weren't a lot of details released about it.

it was supposed to be a new route built from scratch. rumor was, it was going to somehow utilize the BQE into downtown Brooklyn, but i could be incorrect 

Edited August 4, 2018 by EastFlatbushLarry

[Future ENY OP]

5 hours ago, EastFlatbushLarry said:

tbh the current set up of the B41 Limited is nothing like the old 46 limited (especially the pm rush) they've absolutely decimated the 41, specifically the limiteds to an unrecognizable shell of it's former self. I've argued in the past that the way in which the 41 is being mismanaged by the consistent chopping of runs, is that management's plan is to eventually run artics on Flatbush av. the headways for both the local & limited separately leave little to be desired, driving people to utilize dollar vans & the B103. at least the old 46 limited had reasonable headways, and even then, with all the people who utilized the utica corridor, the dollar vans were/are still able to maintain their own business. 

TBH.. The way Flatbush Avenue is set up these days. Artics should of been here years ago when Gun Hill brought 2 D60's into Flatbush for testing and if I can recall they were training on Flatbush to Downtown and back. Thinking then management would make the change to have the artics on Flatbush. Bus stops moved to accommodate the artics. However, that never happen. Now fast forward to 2011, 2012 FB getting novas for the B44 limited and SBS. If the TA was smart then some of those LFSA's should of went to FB for the B41. Not too long ago I would see a LFSA work a KP to Empire during the AM rush than interline to the 44 on Nostrand.  

I think one day FB will be mostly artic but the way everything is set up right now management doesn't care about fixing the B41.

[Brillant93]

29 minutes ago, Future ENY OP said:

TBH.. The way Flatbush Avenue is set up these days. Artics should of been here years ago when Gun Hill brought 2 D60's into Flatbush for testing and if I can recall they were training on Flatbush to Downtown and back. Thinking then management would make the change to have the artics on Flatbush. Bus stops moved to accommodate the artics. However, that never happen. Now fast forward to 2011, 2012 FB getting novas for the B44 limited and SBS. If the TA was smart then some of those LFSA's should of went to FB for the B41. Not too long ago I would see a LFSA work a KP to Empire during the AM rush than interline to the 44 on Nostrand.  

I think one day FB will be mostly artic but the way everything is set up right now management doesn't care about fixing the B41.

I feel that flatbush should have been artic ready a long time before the B44 was set to be an sbs route. The B41, B46, and B44 were one of the most heaviest used lines in the borough and people dealt with overcrowding for years on end. Now dollar vans and hailing cabs have taken some of those passengers due to neglect of those lines. I don't know why the bronx and manhattan were the only boroughs to have gotten them while the other ones were left out until this decade? Now the MTA in its recent capital plans have made it so that four of the Brooklyn division depots are artic ready but again this should have been done years ago. 

But it is it what is. 

[limitednyc]

the union was fighting artics for years.  that why it surprised me when the b44  sbs  was launched. 

[Express Bus Operator]

I can see FB turning into artic fleet. Most of their lines Is capable using artic buses

[JeremiahC99]

2 hours ago, DueceDrives said:

I can see FB turning into artic fleet. Most of their lines Is capable using artic buses

The B41, B44, and B46 can use articulated buses due to their high ridership. The B49 is a maybe, and the B2 and B31 won’t get articulated buses due to their light ridership. Best to have standards for those routes.

[King Transit]

A year ago , I was assuming the B15 would get +SBS even though it's not limited. Is it possible ? I'm thinking the B6 don't need one for the current limited route because , Ulmer Park serves no playing fast operators keeping up their games. Especially , giving excellent headway just like the B35(Jackie Gleason).

[EastFlatbushLarry]

On 8/4/2018 at 6:57 PM, limitednyc said:

the union was fighting artics for years.  that why it surprised me when the b44  sbs  was launched. 

and if you were an employee at FB, you know that the TWU chair gave the union office at FB (and the TA Surface chair) hell for not putting up much if any resistance when the LFSA's hit the B44

[Brillant93]

23 hours ago, King Transit said:

A year ago , I was assuming the B15 would get +SBS even though it's not limited. Is it possible ? I'm thinking the B6 don't need one for the current limited route because , Ulmer Park serves no playing fast operators keeping up their games. Especially , giving excellent headway just like the B35(Jackie Gleason).

SBS is being deferred until 2021 when they revamp the bus system. So after the B82 and M14 there won't be anymore sbs until then. 

7 minutes ago, EastFlatbushLarry said:

and if you were an employee at FB, you know that the TWU chair gave the union office at FB (and the TA Surface chair) hell for not putting up much if any resistance when the LFSA's hit the B44

My issue with things like this is that often the customers/passengers are left to suffer. I understand the union want to hold jobs for its employees but if a bus route is heavenly used and often is crowded the equipment to upgrade the route to artics should be done. The union shouldn't fight trying to make customer experiences better. But on the flip side if a bus is converted to artic ops then those buses should be put on to undeserved lines throughout the city. Thankfully over half of the brooklyn depots are now artic ready just in case for future conversion if needed. 

[EastFlatbushLarry]

17 minutes ago, Brillant93 said:

SBS is being deferred until 2021 when they revamp the bus system. So after the B82 and M14 there won't be anymore sbs until then. 

My issue with things like this is that often the customers/passengers are left to suffer. I understand the union want to hold jobs for its employees but if a bus route is heavenly used and often is crowded the equipment to upgrade the route to artics should be done. The union shouldn't fight trying to make customer experiences better. But on the flip side if a bus is converted to artic ops then those buses should be put on to undeserved lines throughout the city. Thankfully over half of the brooklyn depots are now artic ready just in case for future conversion if needed. 

trust me I've grown over the years to understand both sides of the coin, so to speak, being a customer most of my youth and being an employee most of my adulthood. the issue that TWU had over the years is the same issue the ATU's of Queens & Staten Island had & have with artic conversion, which is the loss of runs which you alluded to. i can't say with all certainty that runs were lost with the Q44 or that they'll be lost if yukon were to get artics for the sbs s79 in some parallel universe, but TWU had a strong argument for resistance due to their experience with MaBSTOA and artic conversion in the mid 90's. that's why the 2002 consolidation pick (merging TA Brooklyn with TA Manhattan (126 street depot) and MaBSTOA) was a big deal. it helped everyone ultimately seniority wise but it really helped MaBSTOA employees find runs and RDO's. the issue these days with artic conversion is the hope that runs won't be completely cut off run boards without being allocated to other lines in the TWU network of depots. 

I'm personally all for improving the customer experience. I'm still a customer when i choose to visit family here in the city and choose not to drive, spending unnecessary gas money when i have an employee pass. but I'm also against management getting chop happy because of the old addage 3 standards = 2 artics (3 40 footers = 2 60 footers) they got chop happy with the B44 and had to add runs back (and iinm they chopped runs on the Q44 also, and had add back runs) I'm not saying management has to get it right the first time always, but they need to show some blasted discipline in these scenarios. they have a bad tendency to kill first and ask questions later. that's poor management skills at any level 

Edited August 6, 2018 by EastFlatbushLarry

[limitednyc]

15 hours ago, EastFlatbushLarry said:

and if you were an employee at FB, you know that the TWU chair gave the union office at FB (and the TA Surface chair) hell for not putting up much if any resistance when the LFSA's hit the B44

at the turn of y2k  i was  was close friends with high level union people at flatbush  and they fought tooth and nail against artic conversion a cross the board b41/44/46/49. all was slated for conversion when they all were at peek service. but the union won the fight untill the 44sbs.

[Interested Rider]

I am opposed to artics as I agree with EastFlatbush Larry as the so called "geniuses" in the MTA use it to cut service. That is not supposed to be the way it works; however, when the ones who make the decisions are of the mindset (my opinion) that the bigger bus means less buses needed and therefore longer headways (lower labor costs) in their minds., then one can understand their rationale, no matter how flawed it is.This is not supposed to be the way it works as the artics are supposed to provide increased capacity not decreased capacity on a route but when management is looking to cut service and therefore labor costs, the longer bus is "nirvana".

To prove my point just compare the B/44  Local and Limited schedule from 2009 and B/44 SBS and local schedule for Summer 2017.   This is a route that has lost a lot of runs and along with it, ridership.

 

 

[Future ENY OP]

3 minutes ago, Interested Rider said:

I am opposed to artics as I agree with EastFlatbush Larry as the so called "geniuses" in the MTA use it to cut service. That is not supposed to be the way it works; however, when the ones who make the decisions are of the mindset (my opinion) that the bigger bus means less buses needed and therefore longer headways (lower labor costs) in their minds., then one can understand their rationale, no matter how flawed it is.This is not supposed to be the way it works as the artics are supposed to provide increased capacity not decreased capacity on a route but when management is looking to cut service and therefore labor costs, the longer bus is "nirvana".

To prove my point just compare the B/44  Local and Limited schedule from 2009 and B/44 SBS and local schedule for Summer 2017.   This is a route that has lost a lot of runs and along with it, ridership.

 

 

Agreed. The 44 used to rank top 10 throughout the city when it was limited. Once the limited was done it was a rap. I feel that  could of did more to keep the 44 on New York Avenue vs Rogers Avenue.  

[Interested Rider]

The MTA  has had a fixation about using Rogers Avenue even though as ENY operator correctly pointed out, New York Avenue was (and is) a far better option.

New York Avenue has Kings County Hospital which is a major traffic generator as the walk from Rogers Avenue is two long blocks and that is in addition to the additional walking just to reach some of the hospital buildings. I attended the suits presentation at Brooklyn College before the B/44 sbs  was placed in operation and wrote and spoke in favor of a stop at the hospital but like everything else  with the exception of adding two additional bus stops for the B/44 sbs,  my suggestion landed up in the long file.