Fleet Swap Discussion Thread

[R42N]

1 hour ago, LGA Link N train said:

1. Simple Answer TRANSFER ALL OF THE R32's TO THE  LINE AND THE ROCKAWAY PARK 
2. Don't even bother with the other lines
3. R32's are banned from montague
4.    won't work, to say nothing for the  cause of CBTC
5.  

If I had to guess, and, yes I’m aware there is the obvious elephant, I really think it’ll go to the . Let’s see, though. 

[T to Dyre Avenue]

On 11/9/2017 at 1:11 PM, R42N said:

I think the issue is here is that it becomes a process of elimination. 

Here are the cited issues with all the lines when the R179s come in:
 

 : Too “packed” 

 : Montague a potential re-route (A possibility to some)

: Not outdoors enough, will get more displaced pax at Broadway Junction, R179s will be added.

 : Montague a potential re-route

: Not Outdoors; too packed for SMEE. 

: Too Packed for SMEE. 

: Plausible, but OPTO and overcrowding could be an issue

 / : No SMEE on Jamaica during Canarsie shutdown. 

: No SMEE on Jamaica/Bridge during Canarsie.

 /  : Montague in-schedule

: Montague a potential re-route

 : Montague in-schedule 

 : Franklin is OPTO, Rockaway is plausible, but won’t use up fleet

 

Frankly, the only route that hasn’t been discussed is the Staten Island Railway, or (SIR). Which would work, but it would need modification and then you’d have displaced R44’s on your hands. 

 

On 11/9/2017 at 3:31 PM, Union Tpke said:

They can't go on the (J). They need all the capacity they can get during the Canarsie shutdown, and the low MDBF can make it even harder to reach 24 TPH.

 

On 11/9/2017 at 7:04 PM, Union Tpke said:

They would prefer not to have them on the  because it is completely underground.

We don’t really seem to have a lot of options here. The R32s have to go somewhere. I honestly think the  to Far Rockaway might be the best option. Yes, once again the  would be getting subway cars in their “twilight years,” just like it did in 2008-09 when the R40s and a large number of R42s were assigned there. Not to mention that the R32s might be better at handling the crowds with eight extra entry doors on each side of the train. 

Yes, I’m fully aware that the R32s don’t have digital side signs like the R46s and NTT cars do. I really don’t think that should be an issue. Certainly no more so than when the R40s and 42s ran there in their last years. Not to mention the R32/38 “salad trains” that ran there for years, both pre- and post-GOH. 

If the R32s’ low MDBF rate is such an issue, then can’t they be put through some sort of robust maintenance program to bring it up?

Edited November 13, 2017 by T to Dyre Avenue

[BayParkwayW]

Personally I’d narrow it down to the   and .

 

The  has a decent portion outdoors, so that shouldn’t put a burden on the A/C, and as the previous comment said, there’s more doors to board from during rush hour. However, there’s the chance that the rollsigns get erroneous and people don’t know if it goes to the Rockaways (which already happens anyway)

The  only runs on weekdays (at least right now) and Coney Island maintains its cars very well, so giving the cars a break on the weekends adds a little to their useful lives. Rarely rerouted through montague. Feasible option.

The  could also be considered, maybe a train or two assigned there just to try things out. There’s plenty of fast Express portions (CPW and the short sixth av express). There’s many layup/unused tracks along the  so if a train breaks down it wouldn’t be too bad.

A lot of people think the  is too “crowded”. But the 32s would come in handy going fast on QBL EXP and eventually the Culver EXP if it happens. Also increases amount of doors to board from (assuming the seven or so R46s are displaced)

The  runs OPTO, but that shouldn’t be a thing when the Canarsie shut down happens. It would help to run eight or ten car trains, and the 32s themselves are faster than the hippos currently on the line. The  only shares tracks with the  so if a train breaks down it won’t be a midtown calamity.

Personally I would go with the  

[R68OnBroadway]

6 hours ago, BayParkwayW said:

Personally I’d narrow it down to the   and .

 

The  has a decent portion outdoors, so that shouldn’t put a burden on the A/C, and as the previous comment said, there’s more doors to board from during rush hour. However, there’s the chance that the rollsigns get erroneous and people don’t know if it goes to the Rockaways (which already happens anyway)

The  only runs on weekdays (at least right now) and Coney Island maintains its cars very well, so giving the cars a break on the weekends adds a little to their useful lives. Rarely rerouted through montague. Feasible option.

The  could also be considered, maybe a train or two assigned there just to try things out. There’s plenty of fast Express portions (CPW and the short sixth av express). There’s many layup/unused tracks along the  so if a train breaks down it wouldn’t be too bad.

A lot of people think the  is too “crowded”. But the 32s would come in handy going fast on QBL EXP and eventually the Culver EXP if it happens. Also increases amount of doors to board from (assuming the seven or so R46s are displaced)

The  runs OPTO, but that shouldn’t be a thing when the Canarsie shut down happens. It would help to run eight or ten car trains, and the 32s themselves are faster than the hippos currently on the line. The  only shares tracks with the  so if a train breaks down it won’t be a midtown calamity.

Personally I would go with the  

I would rule out the  and  as the  is too heavily used and because the  breaking down on QBL will be hell. 

[LexingtonAveExpress]

On 12/5/2011 at 11:46 PM, Shortline Bus said:

The R-32's which are arguably along with the redbirds are the best and longest-serving trains in NYC subway history. With that said and approaching 50 years of service, it long past it's retirement. The should have just brought another few R-160's also so that the entire and line would be mostly R-46's along with a few R-160's. Please no haters lol from R-32's lovers, but just like a 1979 Caddy Deville, there a time and place to move on.

R-32's should have been replaced a while ago. While the they have no choice but to keep them until the new cars arrive they should have still bought a handful more R-160's  since the  and  still have R-32's running

Edited November 14, 2017 by LexingtonAveExpress
Typographical Mistake

[R68OnBroadway]

Just now, D to 96 St said:

Why the hell are you responding to an old post?! 

He is a new member, so he probably didn't check.

[LGA Link N Train]

Yep, he's a new member 

 

[Threxx]

Just played catch-up on this thread and the issues at hand. I'm not familiar with the Montague issue and I didn't see much elaboration on it so could someone explain? I assume it has something to do with the reconstruction work that was done after Sandy.

After actually reviewing the issues and the proposals, I'd probably say the  and the  are the best options for the R32s/R42s, although the  being a primarily underground route poses its own issues with HVAC failure, the relative isolation allows any disruptions caused from failures to remain isolated to the  - not great for those riders but prevents widespread delay in the rest of the system.

While these cars have run on the  for years, I really don't think it's fair to say that was the best place for them in any remote capacity, considering the maintenance issues as well as the route being entirely underground.

[Union Tpke]

For the hundredth time, they are coming off the .

[R68OnBroadway]

3 hours ago, Threxx said:

Just played catch-up on this thread and the issues at hand. I'm not familiar with the Montague issue and I didn't see much elaboration on it so could someone explain? I assume it has something to do with the reconstruction work that was done after Sandy.

After actually reviewing the issues and the proposals, I'd probably say the  and the  are the best options for the R32s/R42s, although the  being a primarily underground route poses its own issues with HVAC failure, the relative isolation allows any disruptions caused from failures to remain isolated to the  - not great for those riders but prevents widespread delay in the rest of the system.

While these cars have run on the  for years, I really don't think it's fair to say that was the best place for them in any remote capacity, considering the maintenance issues as well as the route being entirely underground.

The Montague issue is that the tunnel was not rebuilt to fit the R32s, hence why them being on the Southern Division (minus the  ) is a risk. I'm not sure, but aren't all other 60 ft B division SMEEs banned from Montague too?

[Lance]

3 hours ago, Threxx said:

Just played catch-up on this thread and the issues at hand. I'm not familiar with the Montague issue and I didn't see much elaboration on it so could someone explain? I assume it has something to do with the reconstruction work that was done after Sandy.

After actually reviewing the issues and the proposals, I'd probably say the  and the  are the best options for the R32s/R42s, although the  being a primarily underground route poses its own issues with HVAC failure, the relative isolation allows any disruptions caused from failures to remain isolated to the  - not great for those riders but prevents widespread delay in the rest of the system.

While these cars have run on the  for years, I really don't think it's fair to say that was the best place for them in any remote capacity, considering the maintenance issues as well as the route being entirely underground.

When they rebuilt the Montague tunnels, the clearance for trains was slightly smaller than it was previously. To elaborate, it was condensed in such a way that none of the flat-sided cars (the 32s, 42s, the TOMM set, etc.) cannot fit through the tunnel without scraping the electrical supports (someone correct me if I'm wrong on that part) that were installed during the reconstruction.

1 hour ago, Union Tpke said:

For the hundredth time, they are coming off the .

Some of us don't have the luxury of time to go through every thread and every post religiously. A little patience goes a long way.

[Dj Hammers]

Ok, to settle things here is a nice list of things to photograph, as they will be disappearing over the next few months/years. Wish I could be up front and explain exactly what is currently planned to happen, but I can't, so I'll imply what I can instead. 

 

These are not crew room rumors, they're based on facts. Union Tpke can concur on this as well I assume.

 

R32 and R160  trains

R32/R42  trains

R68/A  trains

R68/A  trains

R46 and  trains

R160  and  trains (maybe)

 

And enjoy the RFW's on the *and*  lines!

Edited November 15, 2017 by Dj Hammers

[MysteriousBtrain]

8 minutes ago, Dj Hammers said:

Ok, to settle things, here is a nice list of things to photograph, as they will be disappearing over the next few months/years. Wish I could be up front and explain exactly what is currently planned to happen, but I can't, so I'll imply what I can instead.

 

R32 and R160  trains

R32/R42  trains

R68/A  trains

R68/A  trains

R46 and  trains

R160  and  trains (maybe)

 

And enjoy the RFW's on the *and*  lines!

There we go. That's as close to accurate as we can get. Thanks for the clarification DJ.

[R42N]

18 minutes ago, MysteriousBtrain said:

There we go. That's as close to accurate as we can get. Thanks for the clarification DJ.

Thanks for that list. It makes sense, with the exception of the 160's on Astoria.

If the  and  is all old tech, how will they be able to switch the rollsigns in a pinch, if three OTT 's come in a row, how will they dispatch a  ?

EDIT: Oh, I see it now. The OTT you are talking about doesn’t have rollsigns, that’ll be weird.

Edited November 15, 2017 by R42N

[Union Tpke]

26 minutes ago, Dj Hammers said:

Ok, to settle things here is a nice list of things to photograph, as they will be disappearing over the next few months/years. Wish I could be up front and explain exactly what is currently planned to happen, but I can't, so I'll imply what I can instead. 

 

These are not crew room rumors, they're based on facts. Union Tpke can concur on this as well I assume.

 

R32 and R160  trains

R32/R42  trains

R68/A  trains

R68/A  trains

R46 and  trains

R160  and  trains (maybe)

 

And enjoy the RFW's on the *and*  lines!

I can concur, and I would like to mention that the pols in Astoria are annoyed the they will be receiving older cars, but they have been notified that they will likely get new cars soon enough. In addition, I have heard that the T/Os from Astoria would like one type of train set to be familiar with.

[LGA Link N Train]

Assuming that there are about 100 R32's left.

Keep 60-80 on the

And leave 20-25 on the Rockaway Park

 

[Union Tpke]

Just now, LGA Link N train said:

Assuming that there are about 100 R32's left.

Keep 60-80 on the

And leave 20-25 on the Rockaway Park

 

They aren't going to the shuttle. Did you read this?

 

29 minutes ago, Dj Hammers said:

Ok, to settle things here is a nice list of things to photograph, as they will be disappearing over the next few months/years. Wish I could be up front and explain exactly what is currently planned to happen, but I can't, so I'll imply what I can instead. 

 

These are not crew room rumors, they're based on facts. Union Tpke can concur on this as well I assume.

And enjoy the RFW's on the *and*  lines!

What could that last line possibly be talking about?

[R42N]

1 minute ago, Union Tpke said:

I can concur, and I would like to mention that the pols in Astoria are annoyed the they will be receiving older cars, but they have been notified that they will likely get new cars soon enough. In addition, I have heard that the T/Os from Astoria would like one type of train set to be familiar with.

If it’s the R46 (which I now think it is), then, geez, that’ll be weird. The 46 is such a weird choice for the  and , it’s synonymous with the  train, and is so foreign to Astoria.

The only good news is that then Astoria will be the first to get R211’s, whenever they come. 

[MysteriousBtrain]

3 minutes ago, Union Tpke said:

I can concur, and I would like to mention that the pols in Astoria are annoyed the they will be receiving older cars, but they have been notified that they will likely get new cars soon enough. In addition, I have heard that the T/Os from Astoria would like one type of train set to be familiar with.

Can't win everything lol. Just look at the . I also feel C riders may also complain when they see R46s on the C.

[R42N]

1 minute ago, MysteriousBtrain said:

Can't win everything lol. Just look at the . I also feel C riders may also complain when they see R46s on the C.

See, if it’s the R68, then I truthfully have no problem, but if it’s the R46, the ugly step-brother, than I’m going to hate this change. 

Strange how such subtle differences is so noticeable. 

Edited November 15, 2017 by R42N

[LGA Link N Train]

5 minutes ago, Union Tpke said:

They aren't going to the shuttle. Did you read this?

Yes I did, but I have my opinions

[LGA Link N Train]

2 minutes ago, R42N said:

See, if it’s the R68, then I truthfully have no problem, but if it’s the R46, the ugly step-brother, than I’m going to hate this change. 

Strange how such subtle differences is so noticeable. 

An R68 train would be great TBH

[R42N]

Just now, LGA Link N train said:

An R68 train would be great TBH

I was talking about the . 

[Around the Horn]

26 minutes ago, R42N said:

If it’s the R46 (which I now think it is), then, geez, that’ll be weird. The 46 is such a weird choice for the  and , it’s synonymous with the  train, and is so foreign to Astoria.

The only good news is that then Astoria will be the first to get R211’s, whenever they come. 

I wouldn't be so sure of that... Some promises were made to influential politicians along the  line a few years ago re: R211s.

[Union Tpke]

25 minutes ago, D to 96 St said:

My assumptions:

 has the 4-car R179s with a few R46s. 

 are fully R160/R179. 

 is fully R160. 

 is also R160 with a few R68s?

 might run with R46s, and would retain most R68s. 

 has the R32s, with most R68s. 

 is fully R160, with some R46s. 

The C won't be running 480 and 600 foot trains. Why would R68s go to QBL when the line will have CBTC ready in about 2021?