Fleet Swap Discussion Thread

[R68OnBroadway]

2 hours ago, Dj Hammers said:

Ok, to settle things here is a nice list of things to photograph, as they will be disappearing over the next few months/years. Wish I could be up front and explain exactly what is currently planned to happen, but I can't, so I'll imply what I can instead. 

 

These are not crew room rumors, they're based on facts. Union Tpke can concur on this as well I assume.

 

R32 and R160  trains

R32/R42  trains

R68/A  trains

R68/A  trains

R46 and  trains

R160  and  trains (maybe)

 

And enjoy the RFW's on the *and*  lines!

These are my assumptions on what these lines will have around the shutdown time:

 -  R179/R46, 32s replaced and 160s sent to ENY/Jamaica

 / 179s and 160s (a few of the 160s will be 207 transfers)

 - R32s displaced from  /  

 - see

/- 100% R160 due to QBL CBTC. Majority of displaced 207 sets along with current Jamaica ones are on these lines.

 /  R68s with displaced R46s from Jamaica. 46s would make it easier to switch signs as the T/O has to only switch the end ones rather than all the signs.

 

[MysteriousBtrain]

Since we're sharing "proposed assignments", here are my thoughts:

: R46/179
: R68/A/32
: R46
: R68
/ / : R160
: R32/160A and/or 179
/ : R160/179

: R143/160

: R160
/ : R160/68/68A
: R160

Edited November 16, 2017 by MysteriousBtrain
Assignment mix-up

[RR503]

Could we make the  and  all 46/160 to ameliorate the Astoria sign switch problem? Maybe send the displaced 68s to the  ? 

[R42N]

10 hours ago, RR503 said:

Could we make the  and  all 46/160 to ameliorate the Astoria sign switch problem? Maybe send the displaced 68s to the  ? 

Here's the thing, there ISN'T a problem.

If it was 100% R68, then maybe we'd have an issue, but even if we made the  50% R68, there generally isn't an issue.

[JayJay85]

12 hours ago, R68OnBroadway said:

These are my assumptions on what these lines will have around the shutdown time:

 -  R179/R46, 32s replaced and 160s sent to ENY/Jamaica

 / 179s and 160s (a few of the 160s will be 207 transfers)

 - R32s displaced from  /  

 - see

/- 100% R160 due to QBL CBTC. Majority of displaced 207 sets along with current Jamaica ones are on these lines.

 /  R68s with displaced R46s from Jamaica. 46s would make it easier to switch signs as the T/O has to only switch the end ones rather than all the signs.

 

will run R32, R46 and R179 and they will share fleets. 

  will be R160 and R179

will be 600 feet 8car R68s.

 

 

[Dj Hammers]

12 hours ago, MysteriousBtrain said:

Since we're sharing "proposed assignments", here are my thoughts:

: R46/179
: R68/A/32
: R46
: R68
/ / : R160
: R32/160A and/or 179
/ : R160/179

: R143/160

: R160
/ : R160/68/68A
: R160

So far you’re the closest. More lines have R46s and less have R160s though.

[Union Tpke]

I know generally what will happen, but I do not know the specifics, so this is my best guess. Things I am essentially certain of are in bold. I am not certain for the G–it can't only have R32s–and for the (Q). 

: R46 and R179
: R32 (from C, J/Z)
: R46
: R68
: R160 (ALSO from N Q W)
: R32 (from C and J/Z) and R160 4-car (from C and J/Z)
/ : R179

: R143 and R160

: R160
: R46 (from F/R)
: R68A (from B, N, W) and R160 5-Car

 

 

[B22viaAtlanticAv]

Here are my thoughts on the situation:

: R46s and R179s (5-Car sets)

: R32s & R46s

: R32s & R160s (4-Car sets)

: R160s

: R160s & R179s

: R46s & R68/As

[darkstar8983]

1 hour ago, B22viaAtlanticAv said:

Here are my thoughts on the situation:

: R46s and R179s (5-Car sets)

: R32s & R46s

: R32s & R160s (4-Car sets)

: R160s

: R160s & R179s

: R46s & R68/As

Also, the following could happen:

if the  line is becoming 600', then it would be best if the  were all R46s

The R179 4-car sets can go to Coney Island for the  and to East New York for the  

The R179 5-car sets can also go to Coney Island for the  

The R160s will be transferred to Jamaica, but some will be retained in Coney Island (at least until the R211s arrive), and those can be assigned also to the

(Unless the R211s can be accelerated enough so that the cars can just displace R160s to Jamaica as they come in. There was a note about accelerating the R211 (at least 450 cars worth)), at which point, the car assignments projected below are useless. 

 

Car Assignments (After  train Shutdown): Still looks like a car crunch though outside the Eastern Division.

 - 38 R46 trains (304 cars) + 56 Spare R46 cars = 360 cars

 - 8 R32 trains + 17 R46 trains  (80 R32 cars and 136 R46 cars) + 30 spare R32s and 16 R46 cars as spares = 110 R32 + 152 R46 cars

 - 18 R46 trains (144 cars) + 32 Spare R46 cars = 176 cars

 - 29 R68 trains (232 cars) + 48 Spare R68 cars = 280 cars

 - 26 R160 trains (260 cars) + 50 spare R160s = 310 cars

 - 44 R160 trains (440 cars) + 60 Spare R160s = 500 cars

 - 13 R179 trains 4-car sets (104 cars) + 32 R179 spares = 136 R179 cars

 /  -  10 R160A-1 trains and 10 R179 (4-car trains) = 160 cars total (80 cars of each car class) + 16 spare R160A-1 and 40 R179A spare cars = 216 cars

 * -22 R143 trains (176 cars) + 36 spare R143 cars + 24 R160A cars (ridership may not recover after Sandy Work) = 236 R143/R160A cars (212 & 24)

 -24 R160A trains (192 cars) + 48 spare cars = 240 cars

 - 12 R160 trains (120 cars) + 3 R179 trains ( 30 cars) + 144 R68 cars (18 trains) = 33 trains + 20 R160 cars spares + 10 cars of R179 (5-car set) spare = 308 cars total

 - 21 R68A trains (168 cars) + 1 R46 train (8 R46 cars) = 176 cars total (R68A and R46) + 32 R68A spare cars and 8 spare R46 cars = 216 cars total

 - 29 R160 trains (290 cars) + 40 spare cars = 340 cars

 - Franklin = 4 R68 cars + 5 spare cars = 9 R68 cars

 - Rockaway = 12 R46 cars (3 trains) + 12 spare R46 cars = 24 cars (R46)

 

 

Otherwise, if the R211s (the 450 cars that could be accelerated), the assignments would look like this (with 450 R211s added)

  - same as the above assignment

 - R68/R68As again (no change from the current 2017 assignment)

 - 240 R211 cars + 100 R160 cars + 40 spare R211s  + 20 spare R160s = 280 R211s + 120 R160s = 400 cars total

 - 230 R211 cars + 40 spares = 270 R211s total

 

 

 

Giving the R46s and R32s to the  have the benefit of having the R46s only being run out of Coney Island Yard during weekdays and give the R68As and R68 cars more mileage because for the most part, the R68As have run primarily on weekday-only services for the better part of the last decade and prior to 2002

Edited November 16, 2017 by darkstar8983

[R179 8258]

8 hours ago, JayJay85 said:

will run R32, R46 and R179 and they will share fleets. 

  will be R160 and R179

will be 600 feet 8car R68s.

 

 

I like this one more simple and less switching 

[R42N]

3 hours ago, Union Tpke said:

I know generally what will happen, but I do not know the specifics, so this is my best guess. Things I am essentially certain of are in bold. I am not certain for the G–it can't only have R32s–and for the (Q). 

: R46 and R179
: R32 (from C, J/Z)
: R46
: R68
: R160 (ALSO from N Q W)
: R32 (from C and J/Z) and R160 4-car (from C and J/Z)
/ : R179

: R143 and R160

: R160
: R46 (from F/R)
: R68A (from B, N, W) and R160 5-Car

 

 

So it’s confirmed that the R46’s are going to Astoria? That’ll be so, so weird. 

Also, Union Tpke, I know you said you are not positive, but under this scenario, you’d have loads of unused R68’s. The entire fleet from the ,  and the sets on the  and  are placed nowhere in your proposal. 

Edited November 16, 2017 by R42N

[R68OnBroadway]

52 minutes ago, darkstar8983 said:

 

 * -22 R143 trains (176 cars) + 36 spare R143 cars + 24 R160A cars (ridership may not recover after Sandy Work) = 236 R143/R160A cars (212 & 24)

 

There is no way ridership would not surge after reopening. The  is busier than some other systems and is packed up the wazoo with gentrified neighborhoods. 

[Union Tpke]

38 minutes ago, R42N said:

So it’s confirmed that the R46’s are going to Astoria? That’ll be so, so weird. 

Also, Union Tpke, I know you said you are not positive, but under this scenario, you’d have loads of unused R68’s. The entire fleet from the ,  and the sets on the  and  are placed nowhere in your proposal. 

I am not sure if it is confirmed confirmed, but it is pretty definite. I meant to put them on the Q.

[R32 3838]

You'll see most of the R32's on the (G), thats been the rumor for awhile now.

 

But if the goes 600 feet then the planned assignments after the R179 order would change especially if the is still assigned to 207th st.

 

 

[R32 3838]

And the way bombardier is slow with this order, its gonna take awhile for cars to be transfered. So i predict by mid to late 2019 or early 2020 all the R179's should be in service and all the R23's would be reassigned. I predict the 1st R32 transfer would happen in early to mid 2018 since the might loose more R46's to jamaica

[VIP]

It makes sense now, as to why there are some Coney Island R160’s on the  as “Cuomo scheme” re models... 

[Bill from Maspeth]

11 hours ago, R32 3838 said:

You'll see most of the R32's on the (G), thats been the rumor for awhile now.

 

But if the goes 600 feet then the planned assignments after the R179 order would change especially if the is still assigned to 207th st.

 

 

I see, because it's been a rumor for awhile, it's going to happen.

You know how internet rumors start?  One guy has a brainstorm.  It gets discussed.  Then guys tell each other "Yeah, I heard that too".  Then it morphs into that it's going to definitely happen.  

The G is a hipster line.  Once the 14th St/ tube closes those people will not stand for old, beaten down, poor performing (MBDF wise) equipment to run on "their" line.  Transit will encourage people to transfer to the G at Lormier/Metropolitan.  They will run newer, more dependable cars on the G because they are encouraging alternate ridership.  Finally, the R32's air conditioning does not perform well in an underground environment.  With the G 95% underground, that alone disqualifies the R32 from running on the G.

Sorry fellas, no R32's pics at Smith 9th and Fourth Ave.

 

 

Edited November 17, 2017 by Bill from Maspeth

[R68OnBroadway]

36 minutes ago, Bill from Maspeth said:

I see, because it's been a rumor for awhile, it's going to happen.

You know how internet rumors start?  One guy has a brainstorm.  It gets discussed.  Then guys tell each other "Yeah, I heard that too".  Then it morphs into that it's going to definitely happen.  

The G is a hipster line.  Once the 14th St/ tube closes those people will not stand for old, beaten down, poor performing (MBDF wise) equipment to run on "their" line.  Transit will encourage people to transfer to the G at Lormier/Metropolitan.  They will run newer, more dependable cars on the G because they are encouraging alternate ridership.  Finally, the R32's air conditioning does not perform well in an underground environment.  With the G 95% underground, that alone disqualifies the R32 from running on the G.

Sorry fellas, no R32's pics at Smith 9th and Fourth Ave.

 

 

The hipsters can't really complain. They either have old trains or no trains. While the  may not seem the best, in matters of breakdowns it would make more sense as due to it having only 1 merger point  (Bergen), disruptions will be at a minimum. There aren't even really that many other options left.

Edited November 17, 2017 by R68OnBroadway

[biGC323232]

2 hours ago, Bill from Maspeth said:

I see, because it's been a rumor for awhile, it's going to happen.

You know how internet rumors start?  One guy has a brainstorm.  It gets discussed.  Then guys tell each other "Yeah, I heard that too".  Then it morphs into that it's going to definitely happen.  

The G is a hipster line.  Once the 14th St/ tube closes those people will not stand for old, beaten down, poor performing (MBDF wise) equipment to run on "their" line.  Transit will encourage people to transfer to the G at Lormier/Metropolitan.  They will run newer, more dependable cars on the G because they are encouraging alternate ridership.  Finally, the R32's air conditioning does not perform well in an underground environment.  With the G 95% underground, that alone disqualifies the R32 from running on the G.

Sorry fellas, no R32's pics at Smith 9th and Fourth Ave.

 

 

lol...Wont stand for old....What age are the r68s on the line 30 plus right..Certainly aint new either...Btw r32s  still operating on the  just fine which is a much longer 100% underground longer rt than the ....So bill where would you put the r32s once the L Shutdown...Love to hear it

[R42N]

2 hours ago, Bill from Maspeth said:

I see, because it's been a rumor for awhile, it's going to happen.

You know how internet rumors start?  One guy has a brainstorm.  It gets discussed.  Then guys tell each other "Yeah, I heard that too".  Then it morphs into that it's going to definitely happen.  

The G is a hipster line.  Once the 14th St/ tube closes those people will not stand for old, beaten down, poor performing (MBDF wise) equipment to run on "their" line.  Transit will encourage people to transfer to the G at Lormier/Metropolitan.  They will run newer, more dependable cars on the G because they are encouraging alternate ridership.  Finally, the R32's air conditioning does not perform well in an underground environment.  With the G 95% underground, that alone disqualifies the R32 from running on the G.

Sorry fellas, no R32's pics at Smith 9th and Fourth Ave.

 

 

Bill, I hate to tell you this, but it’s already practically confirmed that R32’s will run on the  line. Running them on the  and the , as has been said, means a good amount of above ground time, and they can all be maintained at Coney Island Shop. 

Also, I like to think that Astoria is becoming pretty hipster, and the Upper East Side is the most expensive neighborhood in North America, but that didn’t stop the from getting R62a, or the  from getting R68, and the possibility of R46’s in the future. 

[GojiMet86]

If I had a dollar for all the times that the  has gone up Montague this decade, I'd have maybe...$4 or $5? When anything big happens on that line, it is almost always cancelled. Theoretically, sure, they COULD run the  on the Montague and Broadway (like they did in 2014). But the number of times that has actually happened is far outweighed by the times the  has been outright cancelled. It's an overblown and exagerated worry.

[Jemorie]

I don't know why the Montague Street Tunnel was rebuilt like that, but if it weren't for that, we wouldn't even have all this talk about "no R32s on the  lines due to clearances issues in the Montague Street Tunnel" as I've been lurking through this threads as of late...

[darkstar8983]

There is one more thing i forgot to mention:

The R160s that are expected to be transferred to Jamaica Yard assumes that there will be an increase in spare factors for the yards. so not every R160 can get transferred until the R211s arrive and start running on the  and  lines. If the cars all get swapped now, you’d have to drastically cut service to Astoria (running only the  at its current headway’s) or close the 2 Av subway and reroute the  back to Astoria. In other words, additional R160s must be kept in Astoria until the R211s arrive 

[darkstar8983]

5 hours ago, R42N said:

Bill, I hate to tell you this, but it’s already practically confirmed that R32’s will run on the  line. Running them on the  and the , as has been said, means a good amount of above ground time, and they can all be maintained at Coney Island Shop. 

Also, I like to think that Astoria is becoming pretty hipster, and the Upper East Side is the most expensive neighborhood in North America, but that didn’t stop the from getting R62a, or the  from getting R68, and the possibility of R46’s in the future. 

Actually the second part of your statement does not count that the UES has the R142/R142A from the  and  and the R160s from the  

[R42N]

57 minutes ago, darkstar8983 said:

Actually the second part of your statement does not count that the UES has the R142/R142A from the  and  and the R160s from the  

51st, 68th, 77th, 96st and 103rd Street all had NTT, and were downgraded to R62a’s with thinner doors, and it’s a overpacked route, even with the SAS.