Fleet Swap Discussion Thread

[R32 3838]

2 hours ago, SimplyMyself said:

3876/7 has been in-service for at least a week now. Not so sure about 3522/3.

looks like both of them are for service then

[R160car9063]

On 8/9/2020 at 11:29 AM, R32 3838 said:

looks like both of them are for service then

3877 still has its knobs

[trainfan22]

Rode by 207th today on the , there's R32 cars signed up as the in the yard so ENY sent some cars back. Maybe inspection of the 32s is split between 207th and ENY since the one fleet 207th maintains (8 car R179s assigned to the ) isn't running at the moment. IIRC, all the A/C line R46s are inspected at Pikin.

[Rigojefte Galo]

I heard some trains announcements on the 2 and 5 upgraded the R142 announcements the one I hear president street Medgar Evers college and Franklin Avenue Medgar Evers college just like the 4 train R142 and R142A on the 4 train upgraded new announcements set up. 

Edited August 14, 2020 by Rigojefte Galo
New updated trains announcements

[R32 3838]

16 hours ago, trainfan22 said:

Rode by 207th today on the , there's R32 cars signed up as the in the yard so ENY sent some cars back. Maybe inspection of the 32s is split between 207th and ENY since the one fleet 207th maintains (8 car R179s assigned to the ) isn't running at the moment. IIRC, all the A/C line R46s are inspected at Pikin.

 

207th inspects all the cars from what i'm seeing (which is a bad thing) I rather ENY do work to the cars since they do a better job fixing up the cars. ENY only fixed up 3 sets and before they broke em up into different sets just to get them ready for service back in july, they ran way better than the cars that were from 207th st. they swap cars back and forth so its the same number of cars like in july.

Edited August 14, 2020 by R32 3838

[Calvin]

R160A 8649-8652 is back on the after months of CBTC testing on the Culver line seen at the C.I Yard. 

[vioreen]

On 8/7/2020 at 11:25 PM, R32 3838 said:

the whole point of the swap is to prepare and train everyone for CBTC and CBTC itself. The R160's were contracted to have CBTC and it makes sense to make Jamaica all R160's to prepare everyone within the Queens including the yard and yard crew for CBTC. Obviously everyone in the B divison will be trained for the R211's and it would run on every part of the B division for testing.

By Waiting for the R211's, That would have delayed the process. I always said the same on why they couldn't wait but it makes sense to get everyone at Jamaica yard trained for CBTC so when the R211's come in it wouldn't be as complicated besides the R211 testing itself.

 

Also the first set has to test for a whole entire year or more before going into service. And if Jamaica were to get the R211's it would take them until 2022 to be fully NTT which could have made cbtc training and testing even more longer than what it should have been.

When the R211 arrives and fully in customer service, what would happen to the current R160s on the QBL? would some go back to Coney Island?

[VIP]

3 minutes ago, vioreen said:

When the R211 arrives and fully in customer service, what would happen to the current R160s on the QBL? would some go back to Coney Island?

Most likely not. Still early to tell only because the R211 CBTC package may not be compatible with the Queens Boulevard CBTC package. 

[R32 3838]

3 hours ago, VIP said:

Most likely not. Still early to tell only because the R211 CBTC package may not be compatible with the Queens Boulevard CBTC package. 

the siemens are going back, those will be the first R160's to leave Jamaica

[happy283]

6 hours ago, VIP said:

Most likely not. Still early to tell only because the R211 CBTC package may not be compatible with the Queens Boulevard CBTC package. 

I believe that CBTC will all be the same going forward. In the end, Everything except the  will have the same kind of CBTC.

[happy283]

2 hours ago, R32 3838 said:

the siemens are going back, those will be the first R160's to leave Jamaica

What about the Alstoms that came from CI?

[4 via Mosholu]

1 hour ago, happy283 said:

What about the Alstoms that came from CI?

They should be staying; they're unlikely to go anywhere else.

[Rigojefte Galo]

10 hours ago, vioreen said:

When the R211 arrives and fully in customer service, what would happen to the current R160s on the QBL? would some go back to Coney Island?

The R211 will be delay because they are dealing with the inspection issue problems on R179 once they are completely fixed on R179 then they will focus on getting R211 one step at the time.

Edited August 18, 2020 by Rigojefte Galo
Subway cars

[R32 3838]

3 hours ago, 4 via Mosholu said:

They should be staying; they're unlikely to go anywhere else.

those Might Move too. Jamaica Will likely get up to 500 R211's if all options are taken (Base order they'll probably get enough to bump out the siemens r160's back to Coney Island). But since these cars are coming in with CBTC, these will be tested CBTC wise on Queens Blvd to make sure it goes smoothly. Pitkin Will get these too, The needs new cars and 8th ave is the Next B div. line to get CBTC. CIY doesn't need new cars but they will get a piece of this order mainly do to politics and they would assign these to the which would make the most sense.

Edited August 18, 2020 by R32 3838

[NewFlyer 230]

4 hours ago, R32 3838 said:

those Might Move too. Jamaica Will likely get up to 500 R211's if all options are taken (Base order they'll probably get enough to bump out the siemens r160's back to Coney Island). But since these cars are coming in with CBTC, these will be tested CBTC wise on Queens Blvd to make sure it goes smoothly. Pitkin Will get these too, The needs new cars and 8th ave is the Next B div. line to get CBTC. CIY doesn't need new cars but they will get a piece of this order mainly do to politics and they would assign these to the which would make the most sense.

Isn’t the  also suppose to get some of these cars too since the R211’s will officially kill off the R32’s and R46’s?

[R32 3838]

8 minutes ago, NewFlyer 230 said:

Isn’t the  also suppose to get some of these cars too since the R211’s will officially kill off the R32’s and R46’s?

the is Probably gonna get the 's R179's with the leftover R46's or they'll share a fleet. It's unknown if the would run these if it stays 8 cars.

[NewFlyer 230]

10 minutes ago, R32 3838 said:

the is Probably gonna get the 's R179's with the leftover R46's or they'll share a fleet. It's unknown if the would run these if it stays 8 cars.

I hope they finally have the  and  lines share the same fleet since they both utilize Piktin & 207 anyways. It was dumb to order 8 car R179s for the because now when the R211s come you will have these oddball 8 car sets on the  mixed with the 10 car sets unless they move them to ENY or to CI for  service. 
 

I know ridership is often used to explain why the  is still 8 cars but during rush hours from what I’ve experienced  trains can be just as packed as the . Other times it varies but I think it should be full length for uniformity. 

[happy283]

11 hours ago, R32 3838 said:

the is Probably gonna get the 's R179's with the leftover R46's or they'll share a fleet. It's unknown if the would run these if it stays 8 cars.

 

10 hours ago, NewFlyer 230 said:

I hope they finally have the  and  lines share the same fleet since they both utilize Piktin & 207 anyways. It was dumb to order 8 car R179s for the because now when the R211s come you will have these oddball 8 car sets on the  mixed with the 10 car sets unless they move them to ENY or to CI for  service. 
 

I know ridership is often used to explain why the  is still 8 cars but during rush hours from what I’ve experienced  trains can be just as packed as the . Other times it varies but I think it should be full length for uniformity. 

I heard the idea of making the  480 feet, which would mean the 8 car R179s from the 207 will be sent to CI. Then the  would share 10 car R179s and R211s.

[darkstar8983]

11 hours ago, NewFlyer 230 said:

I hope they finally have the  and  lines share the same fleet since they both utilize Piktin & 207 anyways. It was dumb to order 8 car R179s for the because now when the R211s come you will have these oddball 8 car sets on the  mixed with the 10 car sets unless they move them to ENY or to CI for  service. 
 

I know ridership is often used to explain why the  is still 8 cars but during rush hours from what I’ve experienced  trains can be just as packed as the . Other times it varies but I think it should be full length for uniformity. 

The 8-car R179s would have been needed anyways to fill in ENY Yards requirements for the , especially that now the has priority use of the R160s for QB CBTC.

[Lawrence St]

IIRC, There were plans to make the 10 cars last year but there hasn't been an update.

Quite frankly, I don't understand this obsession that has with keeping the 8 cars. They had a chance to fix it with the R179 order (they ordered it right the first time, with more 10 car units then 8 car units), then reversed the order to the way it was now.

[R10 2952]

Honestly, I'm fine with different train lengths; I do not believe in a 'one size fits all' approach.  I was a regular rider for years- only time it became crushloaded was if there were delays on it during rush hour, but it still managed to be more reliable than the  (for the most part anyway).  I'll agree that the  needs to be lengthened, though- maybe not 600 feet, but certainly 450 or 480 feet- the 300 foot Gs were always overcrowded during rush hour.

If we're talking trainlengths, the biggest problem I have is the 4 and 5-car sets being ordered; married pairs are better for operational flexibility- they're still the norm for the MBTA, SEPTA, CTA, TTC, RTA Cleveland, and many other transit agencies across North America.

Edited August 18, 2020 by R10 2952

[R68OnBroadway]

3 hours ago, R10 2952 said:

Honestly, I'm fine with different train lengths; I do not believe in a 'one size fits all' approach.  I was a regular rider for years- only time it became crushloaded was if there were delays on it during rush hour, but it still managed to be more reliable than the  (for the most part anyway).  I'll agree that the  needs to be lengthened, though- maybe not 600 feet, but certainly 450 or 480 feet- the 300 foot Gs were always overcrowded during rush hour.

If we're talking trainlengths, the biggest problem I have is the 4 and 5-car sets being ordered; married pairs are better for operational flexibility- they're still the norm for the MBTA, SEPTA, CTA, TTC, RTA Cleveland, and many other transit agencies across North America.

My guess is that the MTA will fix both those issues when the R211s come in - at that point there will be enough R211s and 5 car R179s for  service, allowing the 4 car sets to be displaced to the  for 480 ft trains. 

[T to Dyre Avenue]

8 hours ago, Lawrence St said:

IIRC, There were plans to make the 10 cars last year but there hasn't been an update.

Quite frankly, I don't understand this obsession that has with keeping the 8 cars. They had a chance to fix it with the R179 order (they ordered it right the first time, with more 10 car units then 8 car units), then reversed the order to the way it was now.

Agreed that it would have made more sense to order more 5-car units. And it’s completely foolish of the MTA to run trains of varied lengths on the , which they did with the R179s and R46s until the R179s got sidelined.

5 hours ago, R10 2952 said:

Honestly, I'm fine with different train lengths; I do not believe in a 'one size fits all' approach.  I was a regular rider for years- only time it became crushloaded was if there were delays on it during rush hour, but it still managed to be more reliable than the  (for the most part anyway).  I'll agree that the  needs to be lengthened, though- maybe not 600 feet, but certainly 450 or 480 feet- the 300 foot Gs were always overcrowded during rush hour.

If we're talking trainlengths, the biggest problem I have is the 4 and 5-car sets being ordered; married pairs are better for operational flexibility- they're still the norm for the MBTA, SEPTA, CTA, TTC, RTA Cleveland, and many other transit agencies across North America.

As long as their aren’t trains of varying lengths on the same line. For MBTA and CTA, pairs are still mostly the norm. TTC moved away from pairs with Toronto Rockets, which are 6-car units on the Yonge-University Line and 4-car units on the Sheppard Line. RTA’s Red Line and SEPTA’s Broad St Line fleets are a of combination single-ended and double-ended single units. I think part of the reason MTA moved away from pairs is because it actually doesn’t cost less to run a shorter train than a longer one. And it requires yard crews to break up trains and put them back together. 

[R32 3838]

9 hours ago, Lawrence St said:

IIRC, There were plans to make the 10 cars last year but there hasn't been an update.

Quite frankly, I don't understand this obsession that has with keeping the 8 cars. They had a chance to fix it with the R179 order (they ordered it right the first time, with more 10 car units then 8 car units), then reversed the order to the way it was now.

 

they scrapped that Plan as soon as the shutdown was not happening. The was supposed to be full length R44/46's but the R44 rot issues and retirement and lack of addtional R32's prevented the to going full length

7 hours ago, R10 2952 said:

Honestly, I'm fine with different train lengths; I do not believe in a 'one size fits all' approach.  I was a regular rider for years- only time it became crushloaded was if there were delays on it during rush hour, but it still managed to be more reliable than the  (for the most part anyway).  I'll agree that the  needs to be lengthened, though- maybe not 600 feet, but certainly 450 or 480 feet- the 300 foot Gs were always overcrowded during rush hour.

If we're talking trainlengths, the biggest problem I have is the 4 and 5-car sets being ordered; married pairs are better for operational flexibility- they're still the norm for the MBTA, SEPTA, CTA, TTC, RTA Cleveland, and many other transit agencies across North America.

I'm Not and not everyone is on board with the mixed length trains. there were alot of incidents to the point they took all the R46's off the and banned them off of it only to throw them back on it just to get rid of the R32's. Even if the R179's do comeback, IMO its just better to make the 100% R179's and have ENY have 52 R179's cars along with about 32 to 44 R32's until the R211's start service and coming in. Then those R179's would go back to ENY.

[Lex]

3 hours ago, T to Dyre Avenue said:

As long as their aren’t trains of varying lengths on the same line. For MBTA and CTA, pairs are still mostly the norm. TTC moved away from pairs with Toronto Rockets, which are 6-car units on the Yonge-University Line and 4-car units on the Sheppard Line. RTA’s Red Line and SEPTA’s Broad St Line fleets are a of combination single-ended and double-ended single units. I think part of the reason MTA moved away from pairs is because it actually doesn’t cost less to run a shorter train than a longer one. And it requires yard crews to break up trains and put them back together. 

There's also the issue of space for passengers. Having a full cab on either end of a set leaves more room for passengers than a half-cab on each end of a car (or pair) does unless two A cars are paired together. (I don't think I need to say anything about those cars with a full cab on one end and a half-cab on the other.)