The Official Bee-Line Thread

[Lex]

Maybe some would call it privilege, but I really don't think those first two tradeoff questions are fair.

[B35 via Church]

23 hours ago, Lex said:

Maybe some would call it privilege, but I really don't think those first two tradeoff questions are fair.

Amongst other things regarding this recent trend of bus network redesigns, I've long grown tired of these introductions to them... They all essentially promise the same shit, under the guise of the benefit for riders - full knowing that cost savings is the ultimate end goal at the end of the day, rider-be-damned.... Gotta try to sell this crap to the riding public somehow, without overhauling these bus networks without public notice.....

To your specific point about those "tradeoff" questions (which of course, there's always an ulterior motive to them), sarcastically speaking, I love that third one - it's the frequency vs. coverage question in disguise.... Hell, I'll copy/paste all those questions on the forum here to make life easier:

* For weekday service, would you prefer to have more buses running more frequently or having more service earlier or later in the day?
Translation: Do you want less overall service over a longer span (i.e. do you want overnight service) or more service over a shorter span (i.e. PEAK service only)?

* Would you prefer to see more service on weekdays or on weekends?
Translation: Are we currently providing too much weekend service?

* Would you prefer bus routes that are shorter with more opportunities to transfer, or trips with fewer transfers even if they take more time?
Translation: Do you want long ass drawn out direct bus routes (implicating coverage), or a grid network (implicating frequency)?

* Would you prefer bus routes that stop less often for faster service, or routes that have more stops and limit walking distance?
Translation: Does your current bus route make too many damn stops?

* Would you prefer more service on existing bus routes, or new routes in other parts of the county?
Translation: Would we be wasting our time & resources with a redesign??!?!!

[BM5 via Woodhaven]

On 12/11/2021 at 12:45 PM, Lex said:

Maybe some would call it privilege, but I really don't think those first two tradeoff questions are fair.

 

5 hours ago, B35 via Church said:

Amongst other things regarding this recent trend of bus network redesigns, I've long grown tired of these introductions to them... They all essentially promise the same shit, under the guise of the benefit for riders - full knowing that cost savings is the ultimate end goal at the end of the day, rider-be-damned.... Gotta try to sell this crap to the riding public somehow, without overhauling these bus networks without public notice.....

To your specific point about those "tradeoff" questions (which of course, there's always an ulterior motive to them), sarcastically speaking, I love that third one - it's the frequency vs. coverage question in disguise.... Hell, I'll copy/paste all those questions on the forum here to make life easier:

* For weekday service, would you prefer to have more buses running more frequently or having more service earlier or later in the day?
Translation: Do you want less overall service over a longer span (i.e. do you want overnight service) or more service over a shorter span (i.e. PEAK service only)?

* Would you prefer to see more service on weekdays or on weekends?
Translation: Are we currently providing too much weekend service?

* Would you prefer bus routes that are shorter with more opportunities to transfer, or trips with fewer transfers even if they take more time?
Translation: Do you want long ass drawn out direct bus routes (implicating coverage), or a grid network (implicating frequency)?

* Would you prefer bus routes that stop less often for faster service, or routes that have more stops and limit walking distance?
Translation: Does your current bus route make too many damn stops?

* Would you prefer more service on existing bus routes, or new routes in other parts of the county?
Translation: Would we be wasting our time & resources with a redesign??!?!!

The other thing about this is, even if you grant them that the trade-offs mentioned there are fair (which I don't), there are a lot of areas where the responses are close if not evenly split. The responses on the third question in particular (which is essentially the major point of this whole analysis) do not suggest that going one way or the other will make much of a difference. It's a 52-48 split (Riders) and 53-47 split (Non-Riders), slightly favoring shorter routes. You might pick up some new riders, but simultaneously lose existing riders because of that. So by going down this route of trade-offs, they're essentially capping themselves, for (marginally) better or worse by going down one path or the other. 

[40MntVrn]

On 12/11/2021 at 9:58 AM, jaf0519 said:

https://www.westchestermobility.org/downloads

Update on the Westchester County Mobility and Transit Study. They have uploaded the results of a survey from Spring 2021.

And it looks like the have pushed back their deadline. Originally the website said the project was from Spring 2020 to Summer 2021. It was recently updated to say Spring 2020 to Spring/Summer 2022.

Thanks for sharing. Results were in line with that I expected, especially the 'more service on weekdays or weekends' tradeoff question. Bee-Line is near non-existent on Sundays. 

[4 via Mosholu]

399 is officially in service with two other XDE 40ft coaches delivered so far; I got on it via the W4 to Getty Square and it came back as the W25 to 238 St Subway and back to Manor House Square.

[40MntVrn]

15 hours ago, 4 via Mosholu said:

399 is officially in service with two other XDE 40ft coaches delivered so far; I got on it via the W4 to Getty Square and it came back as the W25 to 238 St Subway and back to Manor House Square.

And so begins the slow removal of high-floor local buses . I believe the Orion V's are the last of the high-floor buses in the area.

[GojiMet86]

20 hours ago, 4 via Mosholu said:

399 is officially in service with two other XDE 40ft coaches delivered so far; I got on it via the W4 to Getty Square and it came back as the W25 to 238 St Subway and back to Manor House Square.

I wonder why they went with 399 as the first number. I thought they were supposed to start at 401.

[4 via Mosholu]

3 hours ago, GojiMet86 said:

I wonder why they went with 399 as the first number. I thought they were supposed to start at 401.

They began with 398; I believe that 398 to 400 may be on the road right now. 401 to 463 are due to come out any day from now, with 464 to 503 due to come out next year.

[trainfan22]

4 hours ago, 40MntVrn said:

And so begins the slow removal of high-floor local buses . I believe the Orion V's are the last of the high-floor buses in the area.

You mean the NY tri state area? If so NJT will still have high floor transit buses for the foreseeable future.

 

 

Those 40FT Bee Line O-Vs were cool, whenever I rode one on a warm weather day I always got a bus with crappy A/C, otherwise I liked them. Their Cummins engines made them unique compared to NYC Orion Vs which were powered by Series 50.

[40MntVrn]

11 hours ago, trainfan22 said:

You mean the NY tri state area? If so NJT will still have high floor transit buses for the foreseeable future.

 

 

Those 40FT Bee Line O-Vs were cool, whenever I rode one on a warm weather day I always got a bus with crappy A/C, otherwise I liked them. Their Cummins engines made them unique compared to NYC Orion Vs which were powered by Series 50.

Oh yeah. I forgot about NJT.

[Lawrence St]

18 hours ago, GojiMet86 said:

I wonder why they went with 399 as the first number. I thought they were supposed to start at 401.

The order was originally suppose to start with 401, but because of a numbering conflict they started at 398. Bee Line always has the second bus of an order start off as the pilot bus (with the exception of 141).

[GojiMet86]

1 hour ago, Lawrence St said:

The order was originally suppose to start with 401, but because of a numbering conflict they started at 398. Bee Line always has the second bus of an order start off as the pilot bus (with the exception of 141).

Wait, what do they conflict with? There are no 400s and 500s at the moment.

[Lawrence St]

4 minutes ago, GojiMet86 said:

Wait, what do they conflict with? There are no 400s and 500s at the moment.

The Neoplans. Even though they're all gone the numbering still remains active for I think 3 years IIRC.

[B35 via Church]

Alright, I get that WCC (Westchester Community College) was closed, but can someone try to explain the rationale for having [inbound BL-1C's start at the Jail Facility] & [inbound BL-43's start up at Emergency Drive/Hospital Oval (east)]? Both of these routes normally terminate at the college (which is well south of either of those 2 stops), but the difference between the 2 stops (the jail stop & the Emergency dr. stop), I'd put about a 7-10 min. walk for a lot of people.... Although the b/o bodied (as in, she hauled ass) the last trip of the night on the BL-43 trip I took a couple days ago, I had got off a NB BL-40 at the jail, because I saw a bus just north of said stop... Figured it was the ~4pm BL-43, but it ended up being a 1C.....

Better yet (unless I'm missing something) there's no where on the Westchester.gov site (Bee-Line) that informs you that buses aren't picking up inside the college. nor where they're making their first pickup.... It's one of those, if you know, you know & if you don't, you don't - which should NEVER be the case when it comes to public transportation...

The inbound BL-1x (which I saw in passing, across the street) at least, starts up at WMC with the BL-40.... The last stop before it dives onto the highway is the SB stop for the jail facility, since buses aren't stopping at WCC....

Edited December 30, 2021 by B35 via Church

[Lawrence St]

22 minutes ago, B35 via Church said:

Alright, I get that WCC (Westchester Community College) was closed, but can someone try to explain the rationale for having [inbound BL-1C's start at the Jail Facility] & [inbound BL-43's start up at Emergency Drive/Hospital Oval (east)]? Both of these routes normally terminate at the college (which is well south of either of those 2 stops), but the difference between the 2 stops (the jail stop & the Emergency dr. stop), I'd put about a 7-10 min. walk for a lot of people.... Although the b/o bodied (as in, she hauled ass) the last trip of the night on the BL-43 trip I took a couple days ago, I had got off a NB BL-40 at the jail, because I saw a bus just north of said stop... Figured it was the ~4pm BL-43, but it ended up being a 1C.....

Better yet (unless I'm missing something) there's no where on the Westchester.gov site (Bee-Line) that informs you that buses aren't picking up inside the college. nor where they're making their first pickup.... It's one of those, if you know, you know & if you don't, you don't - which should NEVER be the case when it comes to public transportation...

The inbound BL-1x (which I saw in passing, across the street) at least, starts up at WMC with the BL-40.... The last stop before it dives onto the highway is the SB stop for the jail facility, since buses aren't stopping at WCC....

At least Bee Line knows to not have buses enter a campus while its closed for COVID. NJT on the other hand loves to run buses to college's that are closed just for the sake of wasting fuel (ahem 175 ahem).

[checkmatechamp13]

1 hour ago, Lawrence St said:

At least Bee Line knows to not have buses enter a campus while its closed for COVID. NJT on the other hand loves to run buses to college's that are closed just for the sake of wasting fuel (ahem 175 ahem).

If the college is mid-route, then technically the buses would have to wait (and probably idle) at the next timepoint anyway. The other thing is that there might be a residential neighborhood near the college that generates some ridership (it might not be many people, but it still sucks to walk over to the stop just to find out buses are arbitrarily starting at some other stop).

BTW, @B35 via Church would you happen to know if the 8A starts at SCCC on the weekends? I know officially it does, but I remember on an S66 ride, a passenger mentioned that the college was blocked off and that's why it gets bypassed on weekends. (In other words, if it's blocked off, how can the 8A terminate there?)

[Railfanner Mario]

143 currently Testing at Yonkers Since December 15th. We still await for it to go in service 

[B35 via Church]

21 hours ago, Lawrence St said:

At least Bee Line knows to not have buses enter a campus while its closed for COVID. NJT on the other hand loves to run buses to college's that are closed just for the sake of wasting fuel (ahem 175 ahem).

Difference being, WCC's entrances are gated off... Lot of those colleges that NJT buses serve, aren't...

19 hours ago, checkmatechamp13 said:

BTW, @B35 via Church would you happen to know if the 8A starts at SCCC on the weekends? I know officially it does, but I remember on an S66 ride, a passenger mentioned that the college was blocked off and that's why it gets bypassed on weekends. (In other words, if it's blocked off, how can the 8A terminate there?)

I've personally never been on an S66 that bypassed the college (incl. on weekends), nor have I've been on the 8a in a minute... So if they're having 8a's terminating at the county center (which is the penultimate stop) or somewhere else on weekends, it's news to me....

[R10 2952]

On 12/29/2021 at 7:43 PM, trainfan22 said:

Their Cummins engines made them unique compared to NYC Orion Vs which were powered by Series 50.

Facts.  I would even go further and say I actually preferred the Cummins O5s by a long shot- much smoother and quieter. 

[Lawrence St]

Alright, it's that time guys :

Retired Buses As of December 31, 2021:

Orion V Transit: 662

Orion V Suburban: N/A

Orion V 32.5: 118, 131, 134* (120 transferred to P.T.L.A to replace 131)

New Flyer XD60: 350

 

[Mtatransit]

On 12/13/2021 at 2:07 PM, 40MntVrn said:

Thanks for sharing. Results were in line with that I expected, especially the 'more service on weekdays or weekends' tradeoff question. Bee-Line is near non-existent on Sundays. 

Bee Line manages to have both poor coverage AND poor headway on Sundays. Its quite unbelievable.

Compared to their Saturday schedule, which could be better, but are actually pretty decent for its system the ridership that currently uses it

[B35 via Church]

6 hours ago, Mtatransit said:

Bee Line manages to have both poor coverage AND poor headway on Sundays. Its quite unbelievable.

Compared to their Saturday schedule, which could be better, but are actually pretty decent for its system the ridership that currently uses it

• both the BL-5 & the BL-6 run b/w Yonkers & White Plains, and both operate on like 75 min. headways or some stupid shit, to boot
• None of the BL-1 variants operate (only the "core" service that runs b/w the & Yonkers city line)
• Every other BL-7 runs to/from New Roc'
• hourly service to WMC, 1/2 hourly service to White Plains on the BL-40
• what is it, every third BL-20 runs past Cross County to White Plains
• buses start running around 10am (IIRC) on the BL-55

That's just off top, of the routes that even run.... Only routes (that I have a use for) that I can tolerate on Sundays is the BL-42, the BL-4, and to a certain extent, the BL-25 & the BL-60...

[Lex]

6 hours ago, B35 via Church said:

• both the BL-5 & the BL-6 run b/w Yonkers & White Plains, and both operate on like 75 min. headways or some stupid shit, to boot
• None of the BL-1 variants operate (only the "core" service that runs b/w the & Yonkers city line)
• Every other BL-7 runs to/from New Roc'
• hourly service to WMC, 1/2 hourly service to White Plains on the BL-40
• what is it, every third BL-20 runs past Cross County to White Plains
• buses start running around 10am (IIRC) on the BL-55

That's just off top, of the routes that even run.... Only routes (that I have a use for) that I can tolerate on Sundays is the BL-42, the BL-4, and to a certain extent, the BL-25 & the BL-60...

And that only covers the southern part of the county...

[Tricky]

Recently went out to Yonkers (Tuesday), had to take the 78 from Getty to Ridge Hill, surprised how bad the headways are considering how popular Ridge Hill is, and the fact it also serves Stew Leonard’s 

[Lawrence St]

On 1/2/2022 at 9:50 PM, Tricky said:

Recently went out to Yonkers (Tuesday), had to take the 78 from Getty to Ridge Hill, surprised how bad the headways are considering how popular Ridge Hill is, and the fact it also serves Stew Leonard’s 

The 78 acts as a supplemental route to the 8 which is why it has horrible headways.

On 1/2/2022 at 1:01 PM, B35 via Church said:

• both the BL-5 & the BL-6 run b/w Yonkers & White Plains, and both operate on like 75 min. headways or some stupid shit, to boot
• None of the BL-1 variants operate (only the "core" service that runs b/w the & Yonkers city line)
• Every other BL-7 runs to/from New Roc'
• hourly service to WMC, 1/2 hourly service to White Plains on the BL-40
• what is it, every third BL-20 runs past Cross County to White Plains
• buses start running around 10am (IIRC) on the BL-55

That's just off top, of the routes that even run.... Only routes (that I have a use for) that I can tolerate on Sundays is the BL-42, the BL-4, and to a certain extent, the BL-25 & the BL-60...

The BL-4 on Sunday is horrible, mainly because the last bus from Bedford Park leaves at 8 PM. It used to be 7 PM.

On Sunday, there is a 1T variant that operates but ends at Dobbs Ferry, but uses the 1T designation. Not sure why it doesn't use the regular 1 designation,  but there's been confusion brought up to the county that there's no difference between the City Line & Dobbs Ferry signage.