Lawrence St Posted August 26, 2020 Share #1 Posted August 26, 2020 https://abc7ny.com/traffic/mta-outlines-draconian-cuts-without-$12-billion-in-federal-aid/6389674/ Construction and development potential project impacts MTA Construction and development could be forced to pause 2020-2024 capital projects --Potential projects that could be paused include: --Second Avenue Subway Phase 2 --Penn Station Access/4 Bronx stations --Additional ADA station upgrades --Purchasing of electric bus fleet --Purchasing of new subway rolling stock --CBTC signal modernization projects -including Lexington line --LIRR Central Branch electrification Mass transit potential service reductions New York City Transit could be forced to reduce service by up to 40% on subways, buses and Staten Island Railroad --This will save almost $880 million annually, net of expected revenue losses --Subway headways could increase up to 8 minutes; off-peak headways on Staten Island Railroad would increase by 30 minutes --Bus headways could increase up to 15 minutes --Estimated workforce impact is permanent reduction of over 7,200 positions. My own comments: Since we are in the subway fourm, I expect that the and will be discontinued, weekday service south of Bowling Green will be discontinued, reduction in service on both the and the (5), QBL and Lexington and 8th Av CBTC will be put on hold, and more... 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
R32 3838 Posted August 26, 2020 Share #2 Posted August 26, 2020 (edited) 25 minutes ago, Lawrence St said: https://abc7ny.com/traffic/mta-outlines-draconian-cuts-without-$12-billion-in-federal-aid/6389674/ Construction and development potential project impacts MTA Construction and development could be forced to pause 2020-2024 capital projects --Potential projects that could be paused include: --Second Avenue Subway Phase 2 --Penn Station Access/4 Bronx stations --Additional ADA station upgrades --Purchasing of electric bus fleet --Purchasing of new subway rolling stock --CBTC signal modernization projects -including Lexington line --LIRR Central Branch electrification Mass transit potential service reductions New York City Transit could be forced to reduce service by up to 40% on subways, buses and Staten Island Railroad --This will save almost $880 million annually, net of expected revenue losses --Subway headways could increase up to 8 minutes; off-peak headways on Staten Island Railroad would increase by 30 minutes --Bus headways could increase up to 15 minutes --Estimated workforce impact is permanent reduction of over 7,200 positions. My own comments: Since we are in the subway fourm, I expect that the and will be discontinued, weekday service south of Bowling Green will be discontinued, reduction in service on both the and the (5), QBL and Lexington and 8th Av CBTC will be put on hold, and more... QBL I think would still go on. I Think the would only go to 145th. The would be Cut and the rest I could also see happening. I can see them not taking the R211 option orders as well. Edited August 26, 2020 by R32 3838 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
R10 2952 Posted August 26, 2020 Share #3 Posted August 26, 2020 I'm fine with the R262s being delayed; the R62/As are holding up fine. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LGA Link N Train Posted August 26, 2020 Share #4 Posted August 26, 2020 As long as the is still able to complete the following, we should be good: - QBL CBTC - East Side Access - R211 Base order (460 for NYCTA and the rest for SIR which should be just enough to replace the R32 and R44 Fleets) 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Q101viaSteinway Posted August 26, 2020 Share #5 Posted August 26, 2020 (edited) I think that the would be eliminated fully. I can also see them eliminating and service and also cutting the to 96/2 at all times. I think that MTA has gotten so far along East Side Access that they have to finish it. I'm not sure Metro-North goes to Penn Station ever. Edited August 26, 2020 by Q101viaSteinway 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CenSin Posted August 26, 2020 Share #6 Posted August 26, 2020 1 hour ago, Lawrence St said: Since we are in the subway fourm, I expect that the and will be discontinued, weekday service south of Bowling Green will be discontinued, reduction in service on both the and the (5), QBL and Lexington and 8th Av CBTC will be put on hold, and more... How much of 40% would that even represent? Those routes are a drop in the bucket. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vulturious Posted August 26, 2020 Share #7 Posted August 26, 2020 So here is a letter from the Chairmen and CEO of the MTA to the rest of the MTA about the current situation. This really is getting much worse, we can thank a lot of people that contributed to bringing the MTA to where it's at right now, cough Trump Administration cough. Seriously though, this really is just the worst. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
checkmatechamp13 Posted August 26, 2020 Share #8 Posted August 26, 2020 (edited) 5 hours ago, CenSin said: How much of 40% would that even represent? Those routes are a drop in the bucket. They said a Sunday schedule represents 75% of normal service just to give you an idea. (So those routes plus the , and then some frequency reductions on some other lines and there's your 40%) Or they could just do a 40% reduction across the board (give or take depending on line-specific ridership) Edited August 26, 2020 by checkmatechamp13 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lawrence St Posted August 27, 2020 Author Share #9 Posted August 27, 2020 10 hours ago, Q101viaSteinway said: I think that the would be eliminated fully. I can also see them eliminating and service and also cutting the to 96/2 at all times. I think that MTA has gotten so far along East Side Access that they have to finish it. I'm not sure Metro-North goes to Penn Station ever. They actually want to delay the start of East Side Access. I could see the just returning to Chambers St full time... 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lawrence St Posted August 27, 2020 Author Share #10 Posted August 27, 2020 I could also see the discontinuation of the with the operating to New Lots Av full time and 145th St and 148th St served by the M102. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
R10 2952 Posted August 27, 2020 Share #11 Posted August 27, 2020 @Lawrence St Honestly, passengers will be lucky if the goes past Myrtle when all this is done and over with. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
R32 3838 Posted August 27, 2020 Share #12 Posted August 27, 2020 3 hours ago, Lawrence St said: They actually want to delay the start of East Side Access. I could see the just returning to Chambers St full time... I doubt that would happen, The politics in the Middle Village area would make sure of that. Out of all the Cuts, That would be the dumbest cut to make. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Abba Posted August 27, 2020 Share #13 Posted August 27, 2020 (edited) stays as is 8 minutes apart stays as it is 8 minutes apart. eliminated Woodlawn -New Lots every 8 minutes local In Brooklyn shuttle to 180 from dyre every 8 min same as now (6X) suspended every 8 min like now 7X suspended local for sure in Brooklyn maybe also in Manhattan no rockaway park service every 8 minutes combined on all lines suspended suspended every 8 min like now E regular every 8 minutes perhaps local In queens if is send on second ave exactly the way service is now maybe cut back to 4th ave no changes every. 8 minutes same route they may leave that one alone will see. probably Met to Chambers N same every 8 min maybe local in Manhattan every 8 min same route as now R every 8 minutes like now ( maybe would end at 96/2) Franklin remains but Times Square eliminated emlinated eliminated that’s my thoughts Edited August 27, 2020 by Abba 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mtatransit Posted August 27, 2020 Share #14 Posted August 27, 2020 (edited) 16 hours ago, Lawrence St said: https://abc7ny.com/traffic/mta-outlines-draconian-cuts-without-$12-billion-in-federal-aid/6389674/ Construction and development potential project impacts MTA Construction and development could be forced to pause 2020-2024 capital projects --Potential projects that could be paused include: --Second Avenue Subway Phase 2 --Penn Station Access/4 Bronx stations --Additional ADA station upgrades --Purchasing of electric bus fleet --Purchasing of new subway rolling stock --CBTC signal modernization projects -including Lexington line --LIRR Central Branch electrification Mass transit potential service reductions New York City Transit could be forced to reduce service by up to 40% on subways, buses and Staten Island Railroad --This will save almost $880 million annually, net of expected revenue losses --Subway headways could increase up to 8 minutes; off-peak headways on Staten Island Railroad would increase by 30 minutes --Bus headways could increase up to 15 minutes --Estimated workforce impact is permanent reduction of over 7,200 positions. Also these cuts will also seemingly include the following reductions on the commuter railroad division 50% cut in service on MNR/LIRR reduced service up to 60 minutes on heavier ridership branch and 120 minutes on lighter used branch Closure of one or more LIRR branch Elimination of ticket windows Completely closure of W of Hudson Metro North service (Port Jervis Line and Pascack Valley Line). I asume service will terminate at the NJ border in this case, Montvale and Suffern. Eliminate 850 commuter rail employees Access A Ride Service will no longer be on demand, but MTA will be increasing trips to feeder service (not sure what that means but maybe a trip to the nearest accessible subway station?) MTA Bridges and Tunnel Elimination of the NY resident EZ-Pass discount (which I don't know if it includes Staten Island and Rockaway residents which would be devestating) Implementing peak pricing on MTA B&T Elimination of 300 jobs https://www.nbcnewyork.com/news/local/mta-expected-to-outline-possible-service-cuts-layoffs-amid-12b-deficit/2585597/?fbclid=IwAR0hNxvNGEmEgYto06uRyZCuccnFPruAYZcDeYW-LQHz2XomyevGf-pDYcU Fares Will be increased 10% by 2023 https://www.newsday.com/long-island/transportation/mta-finances-1.48598336 That being said There are no easy cuts here this time around. 2010 was a drop in the bucket compare to this looming deficit. Most likely weekday subway/buses service will resemble a reduced Sunday service , and weekend service will more and more resemble commuter rail frequencies. That is roughly one train every 15 -20 min on weekday and every 30-40 minutes on weekends. Those peak service pattern is pretty much gone to Brooklyn, south of Myrtle Ave. On the commuter rail side, these reductions are MUCH more drastic. 60 minute headway during rush hours (maybe at best 30 minutes) and 120 minutes for all outer lower ridership branch. I assume that the service east of Ronkonkoma, W Hempstead Branch and probably the Oyster Bay branch will be fully eliminated On the Metro North, we already know that the MTA is proposing to eliminate two lines (Port Jervis and Pascask Valley) Depending on CDOT's financial situation, the New haven Line most likely will be spared most of the cuts, but service in NYS on the New haven Line, on the hudson and harlem Line, service will most likely resemble current weekend schedules and weekend service will definitely be cut north of Southeast, with service every 120 minutes elsewhere Edited August 27, 2020 by Mtatransit 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eric B Posted August 27, 2020 Share #15 Posted August 27, 2020 (edited) 12 hours ago, Lawrence St said: hat the would be eliminated fully. I can also see them eliminating and service and also cutting the to 96/2 at all times. I think that MTA has gotten so far along East Side Access that they have to finish it. I'm not sure Metro-North goes to Penn Station ever. 12 hours ago, Lawrence St said: They actually want to delay the start of East Side Access. I could see the just returning to Chambers St full time... 10 hours ago, R10 2952 said: @Lawrence St Honestly, passengers will be lucky if the goes past Myrtle when all this is done and over with. 8 hours ago, R32 3838 said: I doubt that would happen, The politics in the Middle Village area would make sure of that. Out of all the Cuts, That would be the dumbest cut to make. Judging by the Essential Services plan, it seems to be the other end of the line that holds the most sway now, as the wasn't reduced at all (except slight headway changes), so I could see it being the same. Edited August 27, 2020 by Eric B 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
QM1to6Ave Posted August 27, 2020 Share #16 Posted August 27, 2020 If mass transit is so drastically reduced, it will force more businesses to remain (or become) remote-only for employees. If i have a choice between two jobs, and one does not require dealing with these immense reductions in travel opportunities, I am sure as hell taking the remote job. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CenSin Posted August 27, 2020 Share #17 Posted August 27, 2020 42 minutes ago, QM1to6Ave said: If mass transit is so drastically reduced, it will force more businesses to remain (or become) remote-only for employees. If i have a choice between two jobs, and one does not require dealing with these immense reductions in travel opportunities, I am sure as hell taking the remote job. you've just described the beginning of a death spiral. bad public transit, not enough road capacity work from home trends restaurants and other peripheral businesses go bust commercial properties decline, and tax revenues dry up making the MTA too poor to run service return to #1 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FamousNYLover Posted August 27, 2020 Share #18 Posted August 27, 2020 : 42nd St , could be cut. : Local in Brooklyn, late night all stops : Dyre Av Shuttle Service eliminated 179th St rush hour trip eliminated Might be discontinue. : Skip-stop express service suspeneded. No service south of Chambers St. : Weekend, to/from Essex St, late night from Myrtle Av-Broadway. SIR: Express service rdued. Buses: Brooklyn: B2, B37, B26, B13, B83, BM1, X27/X28 Weekend could be cut. Bronx: Bx4A, Bx13, Bx18, Bx20, Bx32, BxM6, BxM10 could be cut. Manhattan: M1, M3, M8 weekend, M10, M34A SBS, M50 weeekend, M66, M106 could be cut. Queens: Q9, Q15A, Q19, Q20B, Q21, Q23, Q24, Q33, Q49, Q55,, Q101, some express buses reduce. Staten Island: S42, S66, LIRR: Babylon Branch: No cuts Hempstead Branch: Service reduction Montauk Branch: no cuts. Oyster Bay Branch: Service reduction Pt. Jefferson Branch: Train service to/from New Hyde Park, Westbury might be reduced. Pt. Washington Branch: Service reduction Ronkonhoma Branch: Service reduction: Greenport weekend service discontinue except summer. West Hempstead Branch: Cut 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trainmaster5 Posted August 27, 2020 Share #19 Posted August 27, 2020 2 hours ago, CenSin said: you've just described the beginning of a death spiral. bad public transit, not enough road capacity work from home trends restaurants and other peripheral businesses go bust commercial properties decline, and tax revenues dry up making the MTA too poor to run service return to #1 Point # 2 was taught in Brooklyn schools 60 years ago. It's taken this pandemic to start this trend. Point # 3 is happening right now in the NY Metro area and cross-country While I don't see the draconian cuts coming to fruition as some posters do I do see the slow decline of mass transit here (especially) and other major metro areas. Being the cynic that I am and having schmoozed with some " in the know" types I don't understand how some people fail to grasp that the agency was created to serve business concerns. Created to bring the Long Island commuters to Manhattan because the LIRR was bankrupt. The MNRR came about for the same reason. The only reason NYCTA was added to the mix was because the City of New York was broke. I read the local, national, and business pages daily as well as the threads on the forums and I get depressed in the subway posts. You are one of those who has a grasp of what's happening and there are a few others in the subway and surface threads. Meanwhile look at the subway proposals, random thoughts, fleet swap, or R179 threads. Maybe you can tell me what world some of my fellow posters are living in because I admit to being totally confused. Months ago I stated the Phase 2 of the SAS was a pipe dream, IMO. I'm reading that R211 cars are coming because the prototypes are being constructed and paid for. So what is that supposed to mean I ask myself. I'm old enough to remember shiny R11 cars, prototypes for the SAS. All contracts have an out. Business 101. It's my personal opinion that the downsizing will begin and the end result is up to how business addresses their bottom line. Be prepared to pay more for less. Just remember that the politicians listen to those who fund their campaigns. Carry on. 8 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NewFlyer 230 Posted August 27, 2020 Share #20 Posted August 27, 2020 19 hours ago, Lawrence St said: They actually want to delay the start of East Side Access. I could see the just returning to Chambers St full time... This I don’t agree with because Brooklyn residents have benefited tremendously from having access to Midtown. I can see the service along Queens Blvd ending earlier than it does now. They already end service earlier than what it used to ever since the tunnel project ended. As far as subway service goes, I can see frequency reductions happening on most lines. I can see the being a rush hour only route along with the is they don’t completely get cut. I can see the Rockaway Park shuttle getting eliminated in favor of just having folks take the Q53. Those stations see the lowest ridership on average anyways. I can see the train ending earlier, along with the and trains as well. Can anyone see night time service being cut to 125th? The used to do this at one point in time before it was extended to Brooklyn Bridge at all times. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
4 via Mosholu Posted August 27, 2020 Share #21 Posted August 27, 2020 (edited) 14 hours ago, Abba said: stays as is 8 minutes apart stays as it is 8 minutes apart. eliminated Woodlawn -New Lots every 8 minutes local In Brooklyn shuttle to 180 from dyre every 8 min same as now (6X) suspended every 8 min like now 7X suspended local for sure in Brooklyn maybe also in Manhattan no rockaway park service every 8 minutes combined on all lines suspended suspended every 8 min like now E regular every 8 minutes perhaps local In queens if is send on second ave exactly the way service is now maybe cut back to 4th ave no changes every. 8 minutes same route they may leave that one alone will see. probably Met to Chambers N same every 8 min maybe local in Manhattan every 8 min same route as now R every 8 minutes like now ( maybe would end at 96/2) Franklin remains but Times Square eliminated eliminated eliminated that’s my thoughts Interborough Rapid Transit The train can just be suspended for a time, the train just needs to default to its weekend Bowling Green service on weekdays making all Bronx Park stops on the original section (177 Street to Mott Avenue, present day 149 Street - Grand Concourse) with a quicker turnaround at the South Ferry loop (night and weekend service would be the Dyre Shuttle), reduce the Pelham Bay Park Express to rush hours only while cutting the midday express (the Pelham Bay Park Local would be running to East 177 Street midday weekdays when the express is not running at that period to help take the load off Pelham Bay Park turning all trains there), cut the Flushing Express - its length ain't a problem for the Flushing Local, and the 42nd Street shuttle would still be running as is using the September 1995 service plan with daytime and evening service. Independent Railroad and Brooklyn Manhattan Transit The Lefferts train can turn local in Manhattan and Brooklyn while keeping the Far Rockaway Express between the two aforementioned boroughs (Lefferts shuttle service as the backbone from Euclid would still exist, albeit re-designated as the train) and the Beach 116 Street rush hour runs can be temporarily cut, the train can be reduced to Harlem - 145 Street on weekdays with rush service to Bedford Park suspended for a time and it can become the express along Central Park, Sixth Avenue and Brighton to Brighton Beach, the double train can become the Lefferts shuttle starting from Euclid using the express tracks to terminate there, the train can go local along the Grand Concourse for a time while also being the local along Central Park and Sixth Avenue, switching at Washington Square for service along the Manhattan Bridge to Coney Island, the train can run as is with the rush hour reverse peak service to Union Turnpike being cut, the train can say goodbye for some time as well as the train's Kings Highway and Kensington Church Avenue short turns for some time, the double train needs to remain as is to Church Avenue (they cannot risk delaying the train at Smith Ninth Streets or Fourth Avenue - Ninth Street), and the Rockaway Park train can be the sole Broad Channel to Beach 116 Street service for a time with the summer extension temporarily cut. The train can simply become the double train with locals running over the entirety of Nassau Street, the Williamsburg Bridge, Broadway and Jamaica Avenue with the train being a backbone service running express in the morning and afternoon peak from Broadway - Eastern Parkway to Chambers Street and the alternate run cut, the double train can remain as is with headways based on the time period, the train can come back to Nassau running from Metropolitan Avenue - Middle Village to Essex Street weekdays and weekends, the can run express via Manhattan Bridge from 96 Street to Stillwell, trains can continue to go to 96 Street, double trains can see their one trip to 96 Street being permanently cut, the Franklin shuttle has to stay because community leaders would come knocking like how they did the last time the New York City Transit proposed to completely cut it during the corporate era, and the train would run as is weekdays from Ditmars to Whitehall with rush hour extensions to Gravesend 86 Street. Edited August 27, 2020 by 4 via Mosholu Spacing 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Via Garibaldi 8 Posted August 27, 2020 Share #22 Posted August 27, 2020 All this speculation on something that has NOT happened. Did anyone bother to read the proposals? 10 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
checkmatechamp13 Posted August 28, 2020 Share #23 Posted August 28, 2020 8 hours ago, QM1to6Ave said: If mass transit is so drastically reduced, it will force more businesses to remain (or become) remote-only for employees. If i have a choice between two jobs, and one does not require dealing with these immense reductions in travel opportunities, I am sure as hell taking the remote job. I'm thinking that way even with full service running lol ... I love waking up at 8:25am to log in at 8:30 lol 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CenSin Posted August 28, 2020 Share #24 Posted August 28, 2020 20 minutes ago, checkmatechamp13 said: I'm thinking that way even with full service running lol ... I love waking up at 8:25am to log in at 8:30 lol wtf? it takes 10 minutes to even brew a decent cup of coffee! 2 hours ago, Via Garibaldi 8 said: All this speculation on something that has NOT happened. Did anyone bother to read the proposals? I think it’s endemic to this forum. 4 hours ago, Trainmaster5 said: the end result is up to how business addresses their bottom line. Be prepared to pay more for less. Anyone wanna place bets on which businesses survive the shake-up? 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
B35 via Church Posted August 28, 2020 Share #25 Posted August 28, 2020 (edited) 9 hours ago, QM1to6Ave said: If mass transit is so drastically reduced, it will force more businesses to remain (or become) remote-only for employees.... ...or close its doors for good. 4 hours ago, Trainmaster5 said: ...I read the local, national, and business pages daily as well as the threads on the forums and I get depressed in the subway posts. You are one of those who has a grasp of what's happening and there are a few others in the subway and surface threads. Meanwhile look at the subway proposals, random thoughts, fleet swap, or R179 threads. Maybe you can tell me what world some of my fellow posters are living in because I admit to being totally confused. Holding on to whatever'll be left (to enjoy) from the hobbyist aspect of things, I guess..... With these speculations of what we as NY-ers would end up being left with or whatever, in a roundabout way, you can kinda tell who uses which line more often than the others - because it'd be the one that'd stand to be the least affected One thing I don't look forward to though, is that dude on this forum (I love NY, or whatever the hell) constantly inquiring about 24/7 subway service.... 2 hours ago, Via Garibaldi 8 said: All this speculation on something that has NOT happened. Did anyone bother to read the proposals? Not to say I don't care outright, but at the same time, I'm not going to waste time stressing over what's going to happen with what bus & train line... My attitude with it all is basically one of defeatism; take it as it comes... Whatever's going to happen, is going to happen..... The inevitable. 4 minutes ago, CenSin said: Anyone wanna place bets on which businesses survive the shake-up? 2 red nickels of someone else's money on Joe's crab shack from up the street..... Spongebob would appreciate it. Edited August 28, 2020 by B35 via Church 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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