SUBWAY - Random Thoughts Topic

[T to Dyre Avenue]

On 9/12/2022 at 12:54 AM, Kamen Rider said:

They are not going to reconfigure the old BMT East for 10 car trains. Give that up already.

 

This is the thing with your ideas. They never consider how we operate. 

 

For example. We would need to build a brand new car wash, as the wash at Canarsie Yard can't do 10 cars.

Many of the yard tracks at all three East yards would foul. At Canarsie, only the 5 yard tracks closest to the station platform could hold 10 at their current lengths. 

East New York Shop can't hold 10 car trains and the building can't be lengthened. 

 

We would need to completely rebuild multiple crew offices and towers. Canarsie, Metropolitan, Broadway Junction. 

The car wash, yard tracks and shop are definitely fair points about why upgrading to 10-car trains in the BMT East would be a Herculean effort. But maybe not so much for 9-car trains.  After all, the BMT ran 8-car trains of Standards (67.5 ft apiece) which were 540 ft long, same as a train of nine 60-footers.

17 hours ago, Kamen Rider said:

That’s how a lot of these threads work. People make changes for the sake of making changes, not considering what it does to the operational feng shui of the system.

The operational feng shui?

18 hours ago, R32 3838 said:

 

I said this on reedit and I'll say it on here. Sending the to Jamaica Center is a terrible idea. There is a reason why the was chosen. Plus the terminal can barely handle every train, what makes you think it can handle service and people in Jamaica wouldn't want the train there to begin with. It would be pointless as they'll lose their connection to the train.

 

Swapping the and northern terminals is also dumb. The goes to 179th for a reason since it uses the most cars in the entire NYCT system.

 

These ideas make no sense and all this does is create a bigger mess.

Fair enough about swapping the  and  northern terminals. In fact, there really is no need for two Broadway-QBL services. But I fail to see how running the  to Jamaica Center is a terrible idea. You mention that Jamaica riders would lose their connection to the . But what if Jamaica riders didn’t have to transfer to the already crowded ? What if there were another option to get where they need to go? By taking the  via QB express and 63rd, there could be. Because the  runs parallel to the  from just south of the Flatiron District to Canal St. And the  runs parallel to the  the rest of the way down Lower Manhattan. Riders from Queens who are headed to those areas could either stay on the  or transfer cross-platform to the  for stations that the  doesn’t stop at.

Yes, JC can’t turn more than 12 tph and that’s why we have three ‘s per hour going to/from 179. The  runs less frequently than the  (due to its own switch location problems at Stillwell Ave plus the madness of DeKalb Junction), so I’d be surprised if JC can’t handle the  just fine.

[subway4832]

4 hours ago, RandomRider0101 said:

There isn't even gonna be enough R262s to replace the R142/As, so that's never happening. Plus they're not even that old, and they're needed. Do you ride the Lexington line during any time of the day? If so, you would know that it gets packed over there. We can't afford to cut any extra trains on the A-side right now; we already have a shortage on the B-side.

 

@texassubwayfan555 didn't say 'overhaul', he said 'refurbishment'. I think he's referring to what the R62As got a few years ago.

 

 

@Lawrence St Yes the  uses more trains than the , but they use 46 not 52, like @Calvin said. @R32 3838 you must've counted the spare factor.

What? I literally ride Lexington everyday, and you don't even have to know it's one of the busiest corridors in the US. Also who said anything about cutting service? We need the extra trains. And yes they are old, by the time the R262's get here they will be almost 30-40 years old. They'll be due for replacement. I'm not suggesting the 262's replace the 142/A's, but whos to say they won't tag on some extra cars during the option order. 

Edited September 13, 2022 by subway4832

[texassubwayfan555]

I agree that extra cars should be added on the R262 order to expand expand the 4 and 2/5 fleet.

[RandomRider0101]

2 hours ago, trainfan22 said:

@RandomRider0101 really guy? What an absurd nitpick. Ethier way the R62A never got an mid life refurbishment, they only got SMS every six years.

 

 

 

 

The treatment that the R62As got a few years ago was classified as a 'refurbishment', well at least it was at one point. That's why I brought them up in the first place.

Wasn't trying to nitpick, I was just putting it out there as an example of what he may have been referring to.

You were right when you said that they do SMS now and not mid-life overhauls anymore; but the upcoming R142/A upgrades are primarily for CBTC, not just SMS. That's why Texas called it a 'mid-life refurbishment'. Maybe he used the wrong terminology, but he wasn't too far off actually.

3 hours ago, texassubwayfan555 said:

By "refurbishment" I meant this project, which the consensus seems to say is dead.

I know what you meant, it was just a misunderstanding, that's all.

Maybe there needs to be a distinction made on the difference between a refurbishment, an overhaul and/or whatever else.

[RandomRider0101]

40 minutes ago, subway4832 said:

What? I literally ride Lexington everyday, and you don't even have to know it's one of the busiest corridors in the US. Also who said anything about cutting service? We need the extra trains. And yes they are old, by the time the R262's get here they will be almost 30-40 years old. They'll be due for replacement. I'm not suggesting the 262's replace the 142/A's, but whos to say they won't tag on some extra cars during the option order. 

The way you worded it, it sounded like you were suggesting the R262s can replace R142/As. That would be a fleet reduction, and wouldn't make sense if they're planning to increase the fleet size.

If they don't upgrade the R142/As for CBTC, which is what some of you on here are suggesting can happen, then they can't do CBTC for the A-division right now. The R262s by themselves aren't gonna be enough to cover the needs of both trunks (7th Ave. & Lex).

Unless the R262s end up like the R179s & R211s in terms of late deliveries, I really don't see how many extra cars they can add to the order, if any at all.

[texassubwayfan555]

I wonder what the automatic announcements for the SIR R211s will sound like?

[RandomRider0101]

1 hour ago, subway4832 said:

What? I literally ride Lexington everyday, and you don't even have to know it's one of the busiest corridors in the US. Also who said anything about cutting service? We need the extra trains. And yes they are old, by the time the R262's get here they will be almost 30-40 years old. They'll be due for replacement. I'm not suggesting the 262's replace the 142/A's, but whos to say they won't tag on some extra cars during the option order. 

I just reread your post. While you have a point that the R142/As will be about 30 years old or so when the R262s are fully in service, that doesn't mean they shouldn't be upgraded.

They upgraded the first 380 R142As to R188s for CBTC; why can't they do the same for the other 220 R142A cars as well as the R142s? All cars mentioned are roughly the same age and were built to identical or similar specs.

[texassubwayfan555]

1 hour ago, RandomRider0101 said:

They upgraded the first 380 R142As to R188s for CBTC; why can't they do the same for the other 220 R142A cars as well as the R142s

The MTA said they would do this exact thing a few years ago, there is a discussion on this site about it that I linked previously in this thread, but it has been dead for a while.

[R32 3838]

9 hours ago, Calvin said:

The total for the  overall that has Kings Hwy trips and 2  trips are at 46. 7 during the AM / 6 during the PM more from the  's total. 

The used to use more than 46 sets, They reduced it by 4-6 trains.

[RandomRider0101]

4 hours ago, texassubwayfan555 said:

The MTA said they would do this exact thing a few years ago, there is a discussion on this site about it that I linked previously in this thread, but it has been dead for a while.

I know. I only asked why cuz ppl keep saying it might not happen; whether it's the MTA money issues, it being alot of cars (since the R142/As weren't built with CBTC in mind at the at time), or both.

But like I said before, there will be no A-Div. CBTC if they do in fact choose not to upgrade the remaining R142/As. They would have to wait until they are retired to do it, which is basically what some are saying.

[RandomRider0101]

4 hours ago, R32 3838 said:

The used to use more than 46 sets, They reduced it by 4-6 trains.

I believe the  has always been a maximum of 46 trains during rush hours. I still think you're counting the spares.

Based on what I've heard, they can't even run more trains than they currently do since they share trackage with the  and run like almost every minute together. Even with CBTC, that's alot of trains.

Edited September 14, 2022 by RandomRider0101

[darkstar8983]

4 hours ago, RandomRider0101 said:

I believe the  has always been a maximum of 46 trains during rush hours. I still think you're counting the spares.

Based on what I've heard, they can't even run more trains than they currently do since they share trackage with the  and run like almost every minute together. Even with CBTC, that's alot of trains.

Prior to 2001 the  ran 22 trains, not 26 (all to Jamaica Center, no 179 St trips) and the  used 50 trains. This was before the 6 Av Shuttle and  train because the  was the sole 6 Av Local, which also made the merged at 75 Av and 5 Av-53 St uneven because the  ran every 5 mins and thr  ran every 3 minutes 20’seconds.

[Wallyhorse]

17 hours ago, T to Dyre Avenue said:

The car wash, yard tracks and shop are definitely fair points about why upgrading to 10-car trains in the BMT East would be a Herculean effort. But maybe not so much for 9-car trains.  After all, the BMT ran 8-car trains of Standards (67.5 ft apiece) which were 540 ft long, same as a train of nine 60-footers.

Exactly, and that would in the end be the real purpose of extending Metropolitan Avenue on the  to 600 feet.  Most of the stations are otherwise long enough to handle 540' (nine-car) trains.  I would be looking to at least extend the existing platforms of the Myrtle El and the Broadway-Brooklyn line to handle 600' trains (including Essex Street) as part of longer-term plans to have operational flexibility where in a pinch trains from South Brooklyn can at least go to Metropolitan and turn if need be but also part of an even longer-term plan to connect the existing portion of the Myrtle El (including rebuilding the upper level of Myrtle Avenue to be re-activated0 to the existing Franklin Avenue Line (making all platforms there 600 feet and going back to two tracks even if it means going with two levels of single track in spots to accomplish this for the "Black " train I have proposed that would run from Metropolitan Avenue to Coney Island as a 24/7 line with the   and  switching roles along Brighton with the being the second local to Coney Island and the running to Brighton Beach (extended to Coney Island when the is not running).  This would involve rebuilding a short stretch of the old Myrtle EL with Tompkins Avenue likely the lone stop from the old route actually rebuilt (Sumner Avenue itself i believe no longer exists, at least on Google Maps) and then to a stop connecting to the likely around Bedford-Nostrand before heading to the current Franklin shuttle tracks and absorbing that line.  Such as I would do it would have provisions to join/come from the Broadway-Brooklyn line from the south at Myrtle-Broadway so the and  in an emergency could use the Broadway Brooklyn line to get back to Manhattan (and during GO's), also why I extend the platforms along Broadway-Brooklyn to 10 cars from Myrtle-Broadway railroad north to and including Essex). 

[RandomRider0101]

4 hours ago, darkstar8983 said:

Prior to 2001 the  ran 22 trains, not 26 (all to Jamaica Center, no 179 St trips) and the  used 50 trains. This was before the 6 Av Shuttle and  train because the  was the sole 6 Av Local, which also made the merged at 75 Av and 5 Av-53 St uneven because the  ran every 5 mins and thr  ran every 3 minutes 20 seconds.

Interesting; I knew about the 179 St.  trips, but I didn't think about the fact that they could've been regular  trips at one point. I knew there was a reason they did them, but now I know the reason.

So that's what @R32 3838 was referring to when he said 50/52 trains. He must've forgot that the 179 St.  trips used to be all  trips.

[Maxwell179]

On 9/7/2022 at 10:30 PM, trainfan22 said:

Maybe someone was trespassing in the cab playing with the controls? Might be possible the crew wasn't aware the lights were off/being tampered with.

 

In like 2006 I rode an R68 train that had its lights off underground. Double whammy as it was a rare ride on an R68 (was rare for that time period as R40s dominated the line at the time) and the lights was off!

Nah , turns out the train was having an electrical error. Train was taken out of service at Grand Central and delayed the whole 7 line for about an hour 

[Calvin]

The Train of Many Metals consist of two R10 units and one R16. Consist subject to change by this weekend. 

https://www.instagram.com/p/Ciflf5UOAtE/

[CyclonicTrainLookout]

Anyone have any idea about what's happening at the Woodhaven Blvd  station? There are blue walls up on both platforms signifying possible work. I can't seem to find any information anywhere however.

[RedLine]

Elevator installation

[QM1to6Ave]

Th 53rd and Lex E/M station has signs up that the escalators will be replaced in October, starting with the 3rd Ave entrance. Naturally that's the enteance i use when I take the E to avoid traffic on the bridge with the express bus, so I'm sure that will slow me down. Sigh. 

Edited September 15, 2022 by QM1to6Ave

[Vulturious]

 

Won't be fun once they get to Woodside, that's for sure.

 

...And the back stormdoor is open too.

[trainfan22]

There was two vandalized trains on the and one on the was taken OOS within like an hour time span. Wouldn't be surprised if it's the same group of ppl responsible for all three.

[R32 3838]

On 9/14/2022 at 11:01 AM, RandomRider0101 said:

Interesting; I knew about the 179 St.  trips, but I didn't think about the fact that they could've been regular  trips at one point. I knew there was a reason they did them, but now I know the reason.

So that's what @R32 3838 was referring to when he said 50/52 trains. He must've forgot that the 179 St.  trips used to be all  trips.

Those trains weren't former trains, They were additional trains to increase service in the early 2000s.

[R32 3838]

3 hours ago, Vulturious said:

 

Won't be fun once they get to Woodside, that's for sure.

 

...And the back stormdoor is open too.

This is what happens when NYC becomes to Lax on the law. Too much f**kery going on but I blame this more on the state due to the chipmunk in Albany not budging on bail reform. We gotta stop with the sob stories when it comes to these bastards. It's like they never learned when one of the idiots got his whole dome split open for doing this.

[Vulturious]

Quite the interesting turn of events, I guess someone hasn't done any research. Then again, it's not like Adams' been doing anything anyway, just another publicity stunt.

[Lex]

6 hours ago, Vulturious said:

Quite the interesting turn of events, I guess someone hasn't done any research. Then again, it's not like Adams' been doing anything anyway, just another publicity stunt.

I'd expect nothing better from someone like Eric Adams.

Would it be safe to assume he has some personal stake?