BUS - Random Thoughts Thread

[B35 via Church]

13 hours ago, checkmatechamp13 said:

They should've rewrote the schedules (and published those schedules for the public)....

Fat chance; *it's going to back to normal at some point anyway* (is the likely mindset)....

I'm not expecting the same entity that decided to do away with updating paper schedules (under "normal" circumstances) at bus stops, to apprise the public of temporary bus scheduling.....

20 hours ago, SoSpectacular said:

It's crazy seeing little traffic on Flatbush Avenue, I bet those B41 paddles have too much time in between points to be a straight shot, same deal with the B43- normally it's a damn struggle to stay on time on Sundays but the past few weeks have been such a breeze you have no options but to slow it down to avoid getting yelled at.

I get why it was done, it's just that I've never been on a bus where that sort of thing occurred around 11:00 at night....

Speaking of the B43, outside of the termini themselves, what stops are the timepoints on that route?

Edited April 27, 2020 by B35 via Church

[paulrivera]

9 hours ago, MysteriousBtrain said:

It was already reduced in essential service so technically no changes will occur.

But the B/O’s that lost their M14 runs are still hard at work filling in runs throughout the outer boroughs.

win/win/win.

[SoSpectacular]

1 hour ago, B35 via Church said:

Speaking of the B43, outside of the termini themselves, what stops are the timepoints on that route?

Northbound:

Empire and Kingston (Closest stop being Lamont Ct)

Kingston and Fulton

Throop and Myrtle

Graham and Broadway

Graham and Grand

Manhattan Ave and Nassau Ave

Southbound is roughly the same with the exceptions

Graham and Debevoise (Closest stop being Cook St)

Tompkins and Myrtle

Tompkins and Fulton

Brooklyn Ave and Empire Blvd

Washington and Empire

Edited April 27, 2020 by SoSpectacular

[Lex]

They released several modified Queens bus schedules.

RIP, 14th Avenue...

(Q20: https://new.mta.info/document/16866_)

Edited April 28, 2020 by Lex

[Q43LTD]

There's no Q20B service south of Flushing. That's how the original route was until 1999. 

[MysteriousBtrain]

4 minutes ago, Q43LTD said:

There's no Q20B service south of Flushing. That's how the original route was until 1999. 

Any other notable changes? Beside suspension of weekdays service schedules like the Q26 Q36 and even the Bx5 (full time to Bay Plaza)

[QM1to6Ave]

I had a B/O on the QM5 today who pulled over to announce that everyone must wear their mask for then entire ride, and she told a guy who was sitting in the first row of unchained seats that he had to sit further back. RIdership seems to slowly be increasing; this was an off-peak bus but it had 8 people on it  

[XcelsiorBoii4888]

In all serious, is BusTime that hard to modify and edit? Which division in the MTA is responsible for that? I would wholeheartedly volunteer to fix up the ENTIRE city with stop corrections. Its absurd and I don't understand why it takes so long to get shit done. All stops should be coordinated as the DOT has them marked on the streets, and if the DOT doesn't communicate with the MTA on stop relocations, it should be the drivers responsibility to report any inaccuracies with the screens (wrong transfers, premature stop announcements, late stop announcements, wrong pronunciation, etc) to their respective depots at the end of the day, or week, and have the depot submit any issues with the routes at that depot. This is some elementary school logic, I don't get what's so hard. Please can some higher up please send me to the right source? Some action needs to be taken care of, it's up to the next generation of leaders to step up and act, period. 

@Harry @Cait Sith @East New York @SevenEleven 

Edited April 28, 2020 by XcelsiorBoii4888
Grammar

[MHV9218]

EDPs really taking over these days with nobody else left. Just saw on 8th St., M2/M55 backed up for a few minutes in the middle of an intersection while some nutcase first grabbed hold of a bus while it was turning (delivery guy passed by, grabbed him, pulled him off the bus), then sat down right in the middle of the intersection and wouldn't move. B/Os just threw it in idle and got out to stand there. Then the guy throws a bottle of some liquid all over the bus, I don't even wanna know that was. Finally he moved a few foot over in whatever drug haze and the 55 B/O nailed a perfect turn right around him to get out of there.

[Via Garibaldi 8]

2 hours ago, XcelsiorBoii4888 said:

In all serious, is BusTime that hard to modify and edit? Which division in the MTA is responsible for that? I would wholeheartedly volunteer to fix up the ENTIRE city with stop corrections. Its absurd and I don't understand why it takes so long to get shit done. All stops should be coordinated as the DOT has them marked on the streets, and if the DOT doesn't communicate with the MTA on stop relocations, it should be the drivers responsibility to report any inaccuracies with the screens (wrong transfers, premature stop announcements, late stop announcements, wrong pronunciation, etc) to their respective depots at the end of the day, or week, and have the depot submit any issues with the routes at that depot. This is some elementary school logic, I don't get what's so hard. Please can some higher up please send me to the right source? Some action needs to be taken care of, it's up to the next generation of leaders to step up and act, period. 

@Harry @Cait Sith @East New York @SevenEleven 

lol Despite what you may think, on there isn't a big group of people to handle things like BusTime. I originally spoke with the BusTime team (the people that created it). They stuck around for a bit to oversee any bugs and issues, but BusTime was created in-house. When there is an issue, there isn't a dedicated staff to deal with making changes (believe me, a few things have come up and I figured that out quickly). Changes are noted, and they get to them when they can. There's only a handful of people that deal with BusTime issues. They note the problems and then they are fixed whenever they can get to them.

The problem with the  is everything is compartmentalized. Drivers generally aren't going to get too involved with certain things. Unfortunately, the  and the DOT are not always on the same page. They are two different agencies with a variety of stakeholders, and while they should work more closely together, unfortunately, with everything that happens, things move VERY slowly. The usual turnaround time for things like bus stop replacement can take months.

I have spoken with both the  and DOT reps about who does what. We had a huge meeting with dispatchers, superintendents, two DOT reps and several planners. A lot of it comes down to budgetary constraints and a lack of manpower. The DOT is responsible for things road repair, milling, resurfacing, bus stop and bus shelter issues and fixing a bunch of other things traffic related, and a lot of the work is contracted out and the DOT just oversees some things. There is simply not enough people to go around to handle everything (it would be too expensive for a budget standpoint) and so things like bus stops can take a back seat unless it's really important and some calls are made.

What exactly is the problem? If it is express bus related, I'm happy to reach out and assist.

Edited April 29, 2020 by Via Garibaldi 8

[Via Garibaldi 8]

22 minutes ago, MHV9218 said:

EDPs really taking over these days with nobody else left. Just saw on 8th St., M2/M55 backed up for a few minutes in the middle of an intersection while some nutcase first grabbed hold of a bus while it was turning (delivery guy passed by, grabbed him, pulled him off the bus), then sat down right in the middle of the intersection and wouldn't move. B/Os just threw it in idle and got out to stand there. Then the guy throws a bottle of some liquid all over the bus, I don't even wanna know that was. Finally he moved a few foot over in whatever drug haze and the 55 B/O nailed a perfect turn right around him to get out of there.

Yeah because our wonderful mayor is doing a horrendous job addressing the homeless problem. According to him, there isn't a homeless problem in the subways, and apparently there isn't one above ground either.

https://www.nydailynews.com/coronavirus/ny-coronavirus-de-blasio-homeless-subway-20200423-v74454vxt5bjtd6rwiqm7sp3ke-story.html

Edited April 29, 2020 by Via Garibaldi 8

[QM1to6Ave]

2 hours ago, MHV9218 said:

EDPs really taking over these days with nobody else left. Just saw on 8th St., M2/M55 backed up for a few minutes in the middle of an intersection while some nutcase first grabbed hold of a bus while it was turning (delivery guy passed by, grabbed him, pulled him off the bus), then sat down right in the middle of the intersection and wouldn't move. B/Os just threw it in idle and got out to stand there. Then the guy throws a bottle of some liquid all over the bus, I don't even wanna know that was. Finally he moved a few foot over in whatever drug haze and the 55 B/O nailed a perfect turn right around him to get out of there.

A bum on the M15 started smoking a joint and stunk up the bus I was on. Since the B/O is locked away in his compartment, it's hard to discretely alert him of these issues. Obviously if you are serious danger and yell, the BO will hear you, but otherwise it feels like there isn't even a BO anymore. Yet another reason i prefer EXP buses now and am happy to pay 6.75

[XcelsiorBoii4888]

2 hours ago, Via Garibaldi 8 said:

lol Despite what you may think, on there isn't a big group of people to handle things like BusTime. I originally spoke with the BusTime team (the people that created it). They stuck around for a bit to oversee any bugs and issues, but BusTime was created in-house. When there is an issue, there isn't a dedicated staff to deal with making changes (believe me, a few things have come up and I figured that out quickly). Changes are noted, and they get to them when they can. There's only a handful of people that deal with BusTime issues. They note the problems and then they are fixed whenever they can get to them.

The problem with the  is everything is compartmentalized. Drivers generally aren't going to get too involved with certain things. Unfortunately, the  and the DOT are not always on the same page. They are two different agencies with a variety of stakeholders, and while they should work more closely together, unfortunately, with everything that happens, things move VERY slowly. The usual turnaround time for things like bus stop replacement can take months.

I have spoken with both the  and DOT reps about who does what. We had a huge meeting with dispatchers, superintendents, two DOT reps and several planners. A lot of it comes down to budgetary constraints and a lack of manpower. The DOT is responsible for things road repair, milling, resurfacing, bus stop and bus shelter issues and fixing a bunch of other things traffic related, and a lot of the work is contracted out and the DOT just oversees some things. There is simply not enough people to go around to handle everything (it would be too expensive for a budget standpoint) and so things like bus stops can take a back seat unless it's really important and some calls are made.

What exactly is the problem? If it is express bus related, I'm happy to reach out and assist.

Thanks for the update, but if they had a volunteer team, wouldn't that expedite the process? There shouldn't be excuses for modifications that don't even need to be fixed that often...These are issues that wouldn't normally change frequently, so it should just be done right and get updated when needed. No point in having issues just blatantly there when it can get fixed. I'd happily volunteer, long as I know I'm helping others and all tourist and giving some drivers relief on having to over explain. It's like they're installing these screens for what? Just to shut up the ADA laws? Half of the clever devices screens don't even work because they're not programmed right. They need to make sure its done right and stop half assing everything. People can volunteer for things. Can you send me who to contact? I'll gladly be able to write to them to assist. (I'm talking about actually training and volunteering). 

There are some routes that are just very inaccurate. 

The S90 is the most absurd one of them all. Buses run limited to South Ave, but BusTime has buses running limited only to Park Ave. And guess what...the buses are announcing all of the local stops in between. 

There are a ton of stops that are misplaced, and because of this, some stops are being announced prematurely, or not at all, stops aren't being pronounced correctly. Some stops are listed twice and repeat twice. 

 

The MTA offers unpaid internships...they can't get the interns to assist with these issues? Cmon if this city cared more, they'd get things done. Thats why the subways are the way it is today...because of neglect. Wait too long and things get worse. If the MTA constantly maintained and upgraded when needed, these issues wouldn't lie today. 

Edited April 29, 2020 by XcelsiorBoii4888

[B35 via Church]

8 hours ago, Lex said:

They released several modified Queens bus schedules.

RIP, 14th Avenue...

(Q20: https://new.mta.info/document/16866_)

6 hours ago, Q43LTD said:

There's no Q20B service south of Flushing. That's how the original route was until 1999. 

Shouldn't have to have taken a crisis to realize Q20b service is wasteful....

They claim it's essential, but I have to wonder if this schedule will end up being permanent (that is, up until the current bus network goes up in flames for the proposed/new Queens bus network).... For the MTA to actually post temporary schedules for public consumption, I'm sorry, but I'm skeptical of it...

 

[NewFlyer 230]

11 hours ago, Lex said:

They released several modified Queens bus schedules.

RIP, 14th Avenue...

(Q20: https://new.mta.info/document/16866_)

I’m surprised they did not modify the run time. Looks like buses will still have to wait at the stops to keep from running ahead of schedule. 

[B35 via Church]

2 hours ago, NewFlyer 230 said:

I’m surprised they did not modify the run time. Looks like buses will still have to wait at the stops to keep from running ahead of schedule. 

So someone else around here has a certain level of perception... The service levels wasn't even the first thing I was looking for, it was the runtime... But who cares about adjusting runtimes, when you're releasing schedules for potentially permanent essential service....

Look how long it took for these jokers to realize that the schedule was way too tight for the M55, before they finally did something about it....

[Via Garibaldi 8]

49 minutes ago, B35 via Church said:

So someone else around here has a certain level of perception... The service levels wasn't even the first thing I was looking for, it was the runtime... But who cares about adjusting runtimes, when you're releasing schedules for potentially permanent essential service....

Look how long it took for these jokers to realize that the schedule was way too tight for the M55, before they finally did something about it....

I have asked about run times and why some of them haven't been changed in years. I wasn't given the exact reason, but supposedly there are limitations in some cases on what can and can't be done. I'm sure some of it is $ related too.

[Via Garibaldi 8]

On 4/26/2020 at 11:26 AM, XcelsiorBoii4888 said:

I definitely agree you on that, which would've been the most logical thing to do. This is going to be going on for quiet some time so fresh schedules from start would've been ideal. 

You're being dramatic with your example of why buses shouldn't run early lol, it's not that serious, but I know where you're coming from. I'm just saying there should be some time of window that's OK. Like 2 min early - 3 mins late. 

Not really. I know some essential workers in my group that are first responders or work with the homeless. They now get a bus once an hour and yes, they are running out of their office not to miss that bus because the schedules were not re-written looking at BusTrek data.

[Via Garibaldi 8]

6 hours ago, XcelsiorBoii4888 said:

Thanks for the update, but if they had a volunteer team, wouldn't that expedite the process? There shouldn't be excuses for modifications that don't even need to be fixed that often...These are issues that wouldn't normally change frequently, so it should just be done right and get updated when needed. No point in having issues just blatantly there when it can get fixed. I'd happily volunteer, long as I know I'm helping others and all tourist and giving some drivers relief on having to over explain. It's like they're installing these screens for what? Just to shut up the ADA laws? Half of the clever devices screens don't even work because they're not programmed right. They need to make sure its done right and stop half assing everything. People can volunteer for things. Can you send me who to contact? I'll gladly be able to write to them to assist. (I'm talking about actually training and volunteering). 

There are some routes that are just very inaccurate. 

The S90 is the most absurd one of them all. Buses run limited to South Ave, but BusTime has buses running limited only to Park Ave. And guess what...the buses are announcing all of the local stops in between. 

There are a ton of stops that are misplaced, and because of this, some stops are being announced prematurely, or not at all, stops aren't being pronounced correctly. Some stops are listed twice and repeat twice. 

 

The MTA offers unpaid internships...they can't get the interns to assist with these issues? Cmon if this city cared more, they'd get things done. Thats why the subways are the way it is today...because of neglect. Wait too long and things get worse. If the MTA constantly maintained and upgraded when needed, these issues wouldn't lie today. 

Truth be told, the planners usually handle the oversight of things like BusTime issues, and then changes are executed by someone else on the tech side. I don't know the full ins and outs of how complicated BusTime is to modify, but I do know that the schedules, stops, etc are loaded into each line. Any modification can mess up a line to where buses cannot be tracked, which is exactly what happened with some lines that went to modified schedules until they updated them.

Yes, but think about it. There are about 55 express bus lines and I don't know how many local bus lines. Trying to keep up with changes in real time for buses is no easy task. Constantly maintaining and upgrading costs $$$, which is the main issue here. Remember that the  tried for years to contract a bus tracking system and fired the contractor who could not get the job done so they went in-house. Not making excuses, but I believe the plan is to address some of the things you noted later on as these buses are switched over to OMNY. The  does not want to waste money updating something that is running on dated software as it is. Some of these programs are STILL running on things like Windows from 10+ years ago...

You should look into reaching out on one of the internships if you want to get that involved. 

[B35 via Church]

4 hours ago, Via Garibaldi 8 said:

I have asked about run times and why some of them haven't been changed in years. I wasn't given the exact reason, but supposedly there are limitations in some cases on what can and can't be done. I'm sure some of it is $ related too.

Nothing like interviewing for a company in 2020 that you come to find out, still runs all of its PC's on Windows 98.... Analogous, yes - but that's akin to the "limitations" I believe that they didn't disclose to you.... People believe that scheduling is just as simple as plotting times on a spreadsheet, but there's so much more to it....

But yeah. as with anything, the almighty dollar plays a part in it all too, I reckon....

 

[QM1to6Ave]

4 hours ago, Via Garibaldi 8 said:

Not really. I know some essential workers in my group that are first responders or work with the homeless. They now get a bus once an hour and yes, they are running out of their office not to miss that bus because the schedules were not re-written looking at BusTrek data.

Exactly. I've found that some of the B/Os will sit at the stop to stay on schedule, but a lot won't, and unless you happen to know if a regular B/O will be doing a specific trip that day, you have to assume the bus will be early. And you really have to wave them down with your arms like you were drowning and needed a lifeguard LOL, as most B/O's just assume no one is waiting for the bus anymore 

[Via Garibaldi 8]

2 hours ago, QM1to6Ave said:

Exactly. I've found that some of the B/Os will sit at the stop to stay on schedule, but a lot won't, and unless you happen to know if a regular B/O will be doing a specific trip that day, you have to assume the bus will be early. And you really have to wave them down with your arms like you were drowning and needed a lifeguard LOL, as most B/O's just assume no one is waiting for the bus anymore 

I still use the express bus here and there and yes I have experienced the same thing. Some drivers don't want to pick up anybody and get an attitude when people board. Got into a heated discussion in my group yesterday about it. Passenger complained that his QM20 bus went by Not in Service with passengers on the bus, and then turned his sign on and went to Queens. He and a lady had to wait for the next bus.

[checkmatechamp13]

13 hours ago, XcelsiorBoii4888 said:

The S90 is the most absurd one of them all. Buses run limited to South Ave, but BusTime has buses running limited only to Park Ave. And guess what...the buses are announcing all of the local stops in between.  

Before September 2006 (back when it was PM-only) it ran limited only between St. George & Park Avenue. When it received AM limited-stop service, they extended the limited-stop section to South Avenue (of course, all of this was way before BusTime was even thought of, so that should be no excuse)

There is (or at least was) also an error on the PDF schedules (I think on BusTime as well) that has the S90 being the one to stop at Richmond Terrace & Lafayette Avenue, rather than the S94.

7 hours ago, Via Garibaldi 8 said:

I have asked about run times and why some of them haven't been changed in years. I wasn't given the exact reason, but supposedly there are limitations in some cases on what can and can't be done. I'm sure some of it is $ related too.

And then there's plenty of cases (like now and in all of our involvement in the SIM changes) where they have excess runtime that costs them extra money and they never bother to change that.

[Via Garibaldi 8]

13 minutes ago, checkmatechamp13 said:

And then there's plenty of cases (like now and in all of our involvement in the SIM changes) where they have excess runtime that costs them extra money and they never bother to change that.

I got the impression that there's some sort of contractual agreement or something that may be prohibiting them from making certain scheduling changes. The person I spoke with wasn't at liberty to say, but just said there were certain things that didn't allow them to make certain changes. One thing I do know is that some depots pushed back on the run times when Vision Zero kicked in. The drivers were constantly late with non synced traffic lights and slower speeds, and it negatively impacted service, so on some lines, I do know that they pushed back the run times. 

Something else to consider... From the comptroller's audit, they agreed to make their run times more realistic. Pushing back the run times also makes on-time performance look better.

Edited April 29, 2020 by Via Garibaldi 8

[Via Garibaldi 8]

3 hours ago, B35 via Church said:

Nothing like interviewing for a company in 2020 that you come to find out, still runs all of its PC's on Windows 98.... Analogous, yes - but that's akin to the "limitations" I believe that they didn't disclose to you.... People believe that scheduling is just as simple as plotting times on a spreadsheet, but there's so much more to it....

But yeah. as with anything, the almighty dollar plays a part in it all too, I reckon....

 

Yup! If you look carefully on some of those local buses with the screens, if they are malfunctioning, it shows an old Windows operating system. I was shocked... Like how are you using an operating system that old? Sure it still works, but Christ. My guess is they have some sort of contractual agreement or something.

Edited April 29, 2020 by Via Garibaldi 8