BUS - Random Thoughts Thread

[trainfan22]

45 minutes ago, Coney Island Av said:

Why didn't the MTA split the S78 into two separate routes just like the M5/M55?

It's the longest bus line in the system...

Me personally would split it into S77/S78. The S77 should run from Tottenville to Eltingville where the S59/89/S79 SBS/X21 all terminate, while the S78 is cut back to the latter terminus. 

I assume it's so that the south shore of SI the S78 serves has a one seat ride to ferry. Even though its the longest route in the system it moves along pretty fast and doesn't have any traffic choke points like routes in the other four boroughs.

[Via Garibaldi 8]

1 hour ago, Coney Island Av said:

Why didn't the MTA split the S78 into two separate routes just like the M5/M55?

It's the longest bus line in the system...

Me personally would split it into S77/S78. The S77 should run from Tottenville to Eltingville where the S59/89/S79 SBS/X21 all terminate, while the S78 is cut back to the latter terminus. 

And those who want the ferry should then be forced to two buses?? 

[IAlam]

1 hour ago, Coney Island Av said:

Why didn't the MTA split the S78 into two separate routes just like the M5/M55?

It's the longest bus line in the system...

Me personally would split it into S77/S78. The S77 should run from Tottenville to Eltingville where the S59/89/S79 SBS/X21 all terminate, while the S78 is cut back to the latter terminus. 

The only problem I've ever had with the S78 is with its frequency, runtime and lateness is never really an issue with that route. Well, at least when I ride it.

[checkmatechamp13]

1 hour ago, Coney Island Av said:

Why didn't the MTA split the S78 into two separate routes just like the M5/M55?

It's the longest bus line in the system...

Me personally would split it into S77/S78. The S77 should run from Tottenville to Eltingville where the S59/89/S79 SBS/X21 all terminate, while the S78 is cut back to the latter terminus. 

So then what covers the Tottenville-Bricktown section? The S74? (Bricktown is in Charleston, not Tottenville, so when you say Tottenville, I assume you're referring to the area by the S59 rush hour terminal).

The problem I have with this proposal is that Hylan & Richmond doesn't have much in the immediate vicinity. It's just a transfer point. To me, the southern part of the S78 should continue at least as far north as New Dorp, or be an extension of the S59.

1 hour ago, trainfan22 said:

I assume it's so that the south shore of SI the S78 serves has a one seat ride to ferry. Even though its the longest route in the system it moves along pretty fast and doesn't have any traffic choke points like routes in the other four boroughs.

2

Hylan Blvd can be a traffic nightmare in some spots, especially in the New Dorp area where there's no bus lanes.

37 minutes ago, Via Garibaldi 8 said:

And those who want the ferry should then be forced to two buses?? 

The vast majority of riders south of Richmond Avenue are not heading anywhere near the ferry. The SIR is significantly faster, even with the extra walking. (For example, you'll see more people boarding the S55/56 at Hylan & Seguine to reach the SIR as opposed to taking the S78 towards the North Shore). South of Richmond Avenue, the S78 flies, but the problem is that it's slower as you go further north.

9 minutes ago, IAlam said:

The only problem I've ever had with the S78 is with its frequency, runtime and lateness is never really an issue with that route. Well, at least when I ride it.

I dunno, I've seen some pretty bad bunching, even with infrequent headways on that line.

[S78 via Hylan]

7 minutes ago, checkmatechamp13 said:

I dunno, I've seen some pretty bad bunching, even with infrequent headways on that line.

It was worse when the route was out of Castleton. It’s nowhere near perfect, but it’s improved slightly.

[AlgorithmOfTruth]

4 hours ago, nuyorican said:

Why dosent the MTA start making the Q12 or Q13 do limited stops from flushing to Bell BLVD and also have a Q13 & Q12 make all local stops.   

The Q12 and Q13 both reach Bell Boulevard from the Flushing–Main Street  Subway Station at approximately the same time if they leave their respective termini simultaneously. Note that Northern Boulevard is served by 3 separate bus routes; the Q12, Q13, and Q28, which shortens the travel time for passengers on portions of Northern Boulevard served by either the Q13 and Q28, or Q12 and Q13.

[Cait Sith]

6 hours ago, Coney Island Av said:

Why didn't the MTA split the S78 into two separate routes just like the M5/M55?

It's the longest bus line in the system...

Me personally would split it into S77/S78. The S77 should run from Tottenville to Eltingville where the S59/89/S79 SBS/X21 all terminate, while the S78 is cut back to the latter terminus. 

It's long in length, not in time. Regardless of its length, you can get to the bottom, or the top of the line in about an hour and some change.

The M5/M55 was split because the line would also get stuck in traffic, delaying the route entirely.

[Via Garibaldi 8]

9 hours ago, Cait Sith said:

It's long in length, not in time. Regardless of its length, you can get to the bottom, or the top of the line in about an hour and some change.

The M5/M55 was split because the line would also get stuck in traffic, delaying the route entirely.

Yeah that line ALWAYS had buses in twos no matter what, not including the guys that refused to pick-up and would play games, going off of the route, and so on, so yeah with all of that, it was probably best to break it up.

The M55 is basically worthless, terminating at 44th street and 6th.  

Edited February 7, 2018 by Via Garibaldi 8

[EastFlatbushLarry]

15 hours ago, IAlam said:

The only problem I've ever had with the S78 is with its frequency, runtime and lateness is never really an issue with that route. Well, at least when I ride it.

Anytime I've ever seen the S78, it's carried nothing but air off-peak. I can't attest to it's service during rush hours 

[EastFlatbushLarry]

1 hour ago, Via Garibaldi 8 said:

Yeah that line ALWAYS had buses in twos no matter what, not including the guys that refused to pick-up and would play games, going off of the route, and so on, so yeah with all of that, it was probably best to break it up.

The M55 is basically worthless, terminating at 44th street and 6th.  

I don't understand the 44th street terminal either. Was there ever anything that showed that a M55 to 57 Street wouldn't be efficient enough?

[Via Garibaldi 8]

6 minutes ago, EastFlatbushLarry said:

I don't understand the 44th street terminal either. Was there ever anything that showed that a M55 to 57 Street wouldn't be efficient enough?

Yeah. When the  got rid of the M6, they didn't like it running up to Central Park South... Too much congestion according to them... They're not stupid.  They know that having that bus terminate at such a stupid random place discourages people from using it.  It's just irritating to see them continue to claim that they're looking to improve ridership when it's the complete opposite.   I mean it's very easy to just say well there's too much congestion, so we can cut back the route.  How about they work with the DOT for Christ's sake?  They have Polly Trottenberg on the Board (who I shall remind you is the head of the DOT ) and they are so powerless to do anything to improve bus speeds and get buses through congestion.  I mean how in the hell does that fly?  What's further irritating is hearing her at  Board meetings talking non-stop about subway service.  You're head of the DOT.  Address bus service!!

Edited February 7, 2018 by Via Garibaldi 8

[EastFlatbushLarry]

16 hours ago, trainfan22 said:

I assume it's so that the south shore of SI the S78 serves has a one seat ride to ferry. Even though its the longest route in the system it moves along pretty fast and doesn't have any traffic choke points like routes in the other four boroughs.

Do people on the south shore really ride the S78 to the ferry in order to get off the island? I've always assumed that due to the recent SBS-ing of the S79 and all the express lines on Father Cap & Hylan that most of the customer base avoided the S78, the Staten Island Railway & the ferry.

[EastFlatbushLarry]

2 minutes ago, Via Garibaldi 8 said:

Yeah. When the  got rid of the M6, they didn't like it running up to Central Park South... Too much congestion according to them... They're not stupid.  They know that having that bus terminate at such a stupid random place discourages people from using it.  It's just irritating to see them continue to claim that they're looking to improve ridership when it's the complete opposite.   I mean it's very easy to just say well there's too congestion so we can cut back the route.  How about they work with the DOT for Christ's sake?  They have Polly Trottenberg on the Board (who I shall remind you is the head of the DOT ) and they are so powerless to do anything to improve bus speeds and get buses through congestion.  I mean how in the hell does that fly?  What's further irritating is hearing her at  Board meetings talking non-stop about subway service.  You're head of the DOT.  Address bus service!!

I watch the transit board meetings on YouTube religiously... And Trottenberg's presence annoys me to no end. She or a liason needs to shut up about rapid transit and focus on surface, aside from initiating convo pertaining to SBS. Notice how noticeably silent she is when the topic of bus line headway increases comes up, and what could be potentially done to move buses thru certain corridors. 

[Via Garibaldi 8]

2 minutes ago, EastFlatbushLarry said:

Do people on the south shore really ride the S78 to the ferry in order to get off the island? I've always assumed that due to the recent SBS-ing of the S79 and all the express lines on Father Cap & Hylan that most of the customer base avoided the S78, the Staten Island Railway & the ferry.

I would say no.  South Shore residents generally speaking doesn't ride the local buses like that. If anything, the S78 benefits those from the North Shore that need to ride down to the South Shore, and even then, no one stays on it like that, but at the same time, you need the bus for coverage purposes.  Local bus service on Staten Island is so tied to the ferry that getting anywhere within Staten Island via the local bus is a time consuming hassle. There were times when I would take the express bus home from the city, get on the island and God forbid I want to stop by the market to pick up a few things.  No local bus.  I'd usually just get car service or walk if I was a good mood because often times the buses either didn't come or came too early.  That is one thing that I got sick of and I'm glad I no longer waste hundreds of dollars a month in car service.  I had debated getting a car on Staten Island, but even then that limits you.  If you don't use the car to get to the express bus well you're back to square one, or you have to park the car in a spot where you have various express buses running.

[Via Garibaldi 8]

1 minute ago, EastFlatbushLarry said:

I watch the transit board meetings on YouTube religiously... And Trottenberg's presence annoys me to no end. She or a liason needs to shut up about rapid transit and focus on surface, aside from initiating convo pertaining to SBS. Notice how noticeably silent she is when the topic of bus line headway increases comes up, and what could be potentially done to move buses thru certain corridors. 

Oh I know. It's crazy and very frustrating.  When we talk about "restructuring the subways and buses" and letting the City run things, well she was appointed by de Blasio I believe (I think the City gets two Board seats), and she could be doing SO much more to improve the customer experience on the bus end, yet she doesn't, so I'm not all that crazy about the idea of ceding control to the City to run the  either, not if people like Trottenberg are on the board.  

[P3F]

A couple of SIR stations have free  parking (unlike DOT parking which is always metered) so some people drive to those. Off the top of my head, there's Dongan Hills and Arthur Kill; there's a full list on mta.info.

There's also the park & ride facility at the southern end of the West Shore Expressway, served by the X22. I don't remember whether parking there is free or not.

Edited February 8, 2018 by P3F

[checkmatechamp13]

10 hours ago, EastFlatbushLarry said:

Anytime I've ever seen the S78, it's carried nothing but air off-peak. I can't attest to it's service during rush hours 

What part of the route do you see it in. The busiest section is north of the SIE.

10 hours ago, EastFlatbushLarry said:

I don't understand the 44th street terminal either. Was there ever anything that showed that a M55 to 57 Street wouldn't be efficient enough?

They just wanted to minimize the overlap between it and the M5.

10 hours ago, EastFlatbushLarry said:

Do people on the south shore really ride the S78 to the ferry in order to get off the island? I've always assumed that due to the recent SBS-ing of the S79 and all the express lines on Father Cap & Hylan that most of the customer base avoided the S78, the Staten Island Railway & the ferry.

 

Staten Island is divided into the North Shore, Mid-Island, and South Shore. The North Shore is generally north of the SIE, Mid-Island is between the SIE and around New Dorp (as far as the Hylan Blvd corridor is concerned), and the South Shore is generally south of New Dorp (some might put the borderline all the way south of Eltingville, but most would probably put the borderline around Guyon Avenue or so). 

In any case, for the S78, it generally gets busier as you get further north. On the North Shore, it serves areas far from the SIR, so you have a lot of people taking it to the ferry (the S52 doesn't do much for those people since it meanders around New Brighton), and then also a lot of people taking it towards the Mid-Island (Schoolkids heading to New Dorp High School, as well as people working and shopping along Hylan Blvd). For the people living in the Mid-Island section, most of them take it for short distances within Mid-Island (some use the S78/79 interchangably to get up to the S53 at Clove Road). For those going to Manhattan, they'll usually take the express bus, S79 to the  or the SIR to the ferry.

For the South Shore, ridership is the lowest. Once you get south of Guyon Avenue, Hylan becomes mostly residential (except for a little bit of commercial activity around Nelson Avenue), and south of Richmond Avenue, it becomes a wide open street where development is relatively sparse. Students comprise a large segment of the ridership on the South Shore (most going to Tottenville High School, but you have some South Shore students who go to New Dorp or SI Tech). Non-student riders are generally headed towards the Mid-Island section of Hylan.

On a side note, for the S79, the emptiest section is generally between the Eltingville SIR station and Guyon Avenue, for similar reasons (more residential and less commercial). Of course, it does still see a decent amount of riders, but not as much as the Eltingville-SI Mall segment or New Dorp-Bay Ridge segment.

10 hours ago, Via Garibaldi 8 said:

I would say no.  South Shore residents generally speaking doesn't ride the local buses like that. If anything, the S78 benefits those from the North Shore that need to ride down to the South Shore, and even then, no one stays on it like that, but at the same time, you need the bus for coverage purposes.  Local bus service on Staten Island is so tied to the ferry that getting anywhere within Staten Island via the local bus is a time consuming hassle. There were times when I would take the express bus home from the city, get on the island and God forbid I want to stop by the market to pick up a few things.  No local bus.  I'd usually just get car service or walk if I was a good mood because often times the buses either didn't come or came too early.  That is one thing that I got sick of and I'm glad I no longer waste hundreds of dollars a month in car service.  I had debated getting a car on Staten Island, but even then that limits you.  If you don't use the car to get to the express bus well you're back to square one, or you have to park the car in a spot where you have various express buses running.

1

Right, so if you need a bus for coverage purposes (if South Shore riders aren't heading all the way to the ferry, and North Shore riders aren't heading that far south), that means it doesn't have to come all the way from the ferry. It just needs to provide service to that area. For the few that do need to travel those long distances, they can transfer (either to the regular S78, or to the SIR, depending on how exactly the area is served).

25 minutes ago, P3F said:

A couple of SIR stations have free  parking (unlike DOT parking which is always metered) so some people drive to those. Off the top of my head, there's Dongan Hills and Arthur Kill; there's a full list on mta.info.

There's also the park & ride facility at the southern end of the West Shore Expressway, served by the X22. I don't remember whether parking there is free or not.

1

Princes Bay, Huguenot, and Annadale are the other stations with free parking. Great Kills has municipal parking. And yes, the park-and-ride at the bottom of the West Shore Expressway is free (not that many people take advantage of it, with the crummy service the MTA provides to it). 

[Around the Horn]

11 hours ago, Via Garibaldi 8 said:

Yeah. When the  got rid of the M6, they didn't like it running up to Central Park South... Too much congestion according to them... They're not stupid.  They know that having that bus terminate at such a stupid random place discourages people from using it.  It's just irritating to see them continue to claim that they're looking to improve ridership when it's the complete opposite.   I mean it's very easy to just say well there's too much congestion, so we can cut back the route.  How about they work with the DOT for Christ's sake?  They have Polly Trottenberg on the Board (who I shall remind you is the head of the DOT ) and they are so powerless to do anything to improve bus speeds and get buses through congestion.  I mean how in the hell does that fly?  What's further irritating is hearing her at  Board meetings talking non-stop about subway service.  You're head of the DOT.  Address bus service!!

What's funny is that multiple express routes terminate at 57th and Central Park South and they wouldn't dare turn them at 44th...

They knew exactly what they were doing...

[BreeddekalbL]

Polly is nore interested in pedestrainizing the city and she loves bike lanes, she gets her marching orders from transportation alternatives  

Edited February 8, 2018 by BreeddekalbL

[Via Garibaldi 8]

8 hours ago, checkmatechamp13 said:

 

Right, so if you need a bus for coverage purposes (if South Shore riders aren't heading all the way to the ferry, and North Shore riders aren't heading that far south), that means it doesn't have to come all the way from the ferry. It just needs to provide service to that area. For the few that do need to travel those long distances, they can transfer (either to the regular S78, or to the SIR, depending on how exactly the area is served).

That's right. Let's continue to elongate peoples' commutes by KICKING them off of buses. You are obsessed with FORCING people to transfer, but you want bus service steps from your residence. I personally don't see how much time would be saved. It's not like the S78 crawls. 

[B35 via Church]

20 hours ago, Via Garibaldi 8 said:

Yeah. When the  got rid of the M6, they didn't like it running up to Central Park South... Too much congestion according to them... They're not stupid.  They know that having that bus terminate at such a stupid random place discourages people from using it.  It's just irritating to see them continue to claim that they're looking to improve ridership when it's the complete opposite.   I mean it's very easy to just say well there's too much congestion, so we can cut back the route.....

Right... The same congestion that other routes have to continue to navigate through.... People are tired of the excuses.... They're not in it to improve ridership & at this point, it really isn't about trying keeping what ridership they have left anymore either... It's all become a dog & pony show - the color scheme of the bus matters more than the f***ing service levels for crying out loud.... The MTA may as well start running bus service in Peace Village (N. Korea); it would be a perfect fit !

9 hours ago, checkmatechamp13 said:

They just wanted to minimize the overlap between it and the M5.

That (logic) doesn't explain the M103, so I'm not exactly buying it.... I'm more inclined to believe that they didn't want to run this concoction up to 59th because it would be that much more reminiscent of the M6 - a route they decided to fuse into the (then) M5 that ended at Houston - which was a route that ended up getting split into the M5 & M55 of today.....

At the very least, it shows how ignorant they are when it comes to ridership patterns.... But who cares about any of that....

9 hours ago, Around the Horn said:

What's funny is that multiple express routes terminate at 57th and Central Park South and they wouldn't dare turn them at 44th...

They knew exactly what they were doing...

Lol, of course not - the clientele is different.... Regardless of the example, I'd also fathom it was all calculated; an underrated trait of stubbornness....

I don't want to hear any nonsense about having buses abruptly terminating just north of Bryant Park, being what the riders wanted

[Via Garibaldi 8]

4 minutes ago, B35 via Church said:

Right... The same congestion that other routes have to continue to navigate through.... People are tired of the excuses.... They're not in it to improve ridership & at this point, it really isn't about trying keeping what ridership they have left anymore either... It's all become a dog & pony show - the color scheme of the bus matters more than the f***ing service levels for crying out loud.... The MTA may as well start running bus service in Peace Village (N. Korea); it would be a perfect fit !

That (logic) doesn't explain the M103, so I'm not exactly buying it.... I'm more inclined to believe that they didn't want to run this concoction up to 59th because it would be that much more reminiscent of the M6 - a route they decided to fuse into the (then) M5 that ended at Houston - which was a route that ended up getting split into the M5 & M55 of today.....

At the very least, it shows how ignorant they are when it comes to ridership patterns.... But who cares about any of that....

Lol, of course not - the clientele is different.... Regardless of the example, I'd also fathom it was all calculated; an underrated trait of stubbornness....

I don't want to hear any nonsense about having buses abruptly terminating just north of Bryant Park, being what the riders wanted

Exactly.  With this cut back, you're essentially forced to either take the subway, or transfer to continue your commute, so that means yet again fewer people riding the buses.  I think peoples' patience are also a lot shorter.  They see a particular driver making a mockery of their commute and they simply switch and keep it moving.  

[Dannny]

Lol, so I saw this earlier on 96th st in manhattan. It a Tuskegee bus  made my morning 

[Future ENY OP]

1 hour ago, Dannny said:

Lol, so I saw this earlier on 96th st in manhattan. It a Tuskegee bus  made my morning 

Damm.. That had to be a codebreak. 

No passengers on board?

[trainfan22]

What's funny is 3924 is a flatbush original