BUS - Random Thoughts Thread

[Future ENY OP]

1 hour ago, trainfan22 said:

What's funny is 3924 is a flatbush original

The accuracy. They had 3900-3960 before shipping over to MHV. 

[Cait Sith]

3 minutes ago, Future ENY OP said:

The accuracy. They had 3900-3960 before shipping over to MHV. 

*3959.

[checkmatechamp13]

On 2/8/2018 at 8:31 AM, Via Garibaldi 8 said:

That's right. Let's continue to elongate peoples' commutes by KICKING them off of buses. You are obsessed with FORCING people to transfer, but you want bus service steps from your residence. I personally don't see how much time would be saved. It's not like the S78 crawls. 

 

Using capital letters doesn't make those statements any less conflicting. Coverage and connectivity are two separate issues.

An no, let's shorten people's commutes by not having them wait for buses bogged down at the other end of the island, miles away from where them (or their neighbors) are taking that route to. The very fact that the bus goes to the ferry is a cause of delays and bunching on the route, because any delays on the ferry automatically affect the buses. It's one thing for those in Stapleton or Rosebank, where at least you have a decent amount of riders who come from the ferry, but what good does it do a Tottenville resident coming from New Dorp or looking to go to Bricktown to have that bus held? And sure, the S78 flies through the South Shore, but the North Shore (in particular, the Tompkins Avenue segment) it a different story. 

And steps from my residence....I can guarantee you that you're closer to a bus stop than I'll ever be, regardless of how the MTA structures the routes or where they place the stops (especially considering that I would still be using the same stops I do now, but just have different routes serving them). But keep thinking that....

On 2/8/2018 at 9:52 AM, B35 via Church said:

That (logic) doesn't explain the M103, so I'm not exactly buying it.... I'm more inclined to believe that they didn't want to run this concoction up to 59th because it would be that much more reminiscent of the M6 - a route they decided to fuse into the (then) M5 that ended at Houston - which was a route that ended up getting split into the M5 & M55 of today.....

At the very least, it shows how ignorant they are when it comes to ridership patterns.... But who cares about any of that....

3

The simple answer would be that the M103 was from an era when the MTA had at least a little bit of logic to them: An era when they didn't go out and cut a bunch of routes claiming low ridership, only to turn around and create a bunch of routes with even lower ridership and claim that they don't have money for actual improvements.

If it were a similar situation today where the M101/102 went down to City Hall, I think the MTA would probably just split them at 23rd Street (23rd-City Hall and 23rd-Ft. George/Harlem) and call it a day. For the record, I'm not saying I agree with any of this, but I'm responding to EastFlatbushLarry's question regarding efficiency (So the answer is that no, nothing said that there wasn't enough demand/ridership to send the M55 to at least 57th Street, but in the MTA's stubbornness, they wanted to minimize the overlap. The original plan was to terminate both routes around 37th/38th Street, but after some complaints at the public hearing, they extended both routes a few more blocks and considered those complaints solved. And yes, I'm positive that the resemblance to the old M6 also played a role in that decision)

[Via Garibaldi 8]

35 minutes ago, checkmatechamp13 said:

Using capital letters doesn't make those statements any less conflicting. Coverage and connectivity are two separate issues.

An no, let's shorten people's commutes by not having them wait for buses bogged down at the other end of the island, miles away from where them (or their neighbors) are taking that route to. The very fact that the bus goes to the ferry is a cause of delays and bunching on the route, because any delays on the ferry automatically affect the buses. It's one thing for those in Stapleton or Rosebank, where at least you have a decent amount of riders who come from the ferry, but what good does it do a Tottenville resident coming from New Dorp or looking to go to Bricktown to have that bus held? And sure, the S78 flies through the South Shore, but the North Shore (in particular, the Tompkins Avenue segment) it a different story. 

And steps from my residence....I can guarantee you that you're closer to a bus stop than I'll ever be, regardless of how the MTA structures the routes or where they place the stops (especially considering that I would still be using the same stops I do now, but just have different routes serving them). But keep thinking that....

Yeah and you seem to have no problem making connectivity more difficult by forcing people to transfer. That may work for your commute (you're young so you don't have a problem transferring from buses to subways, etc., but someone who is older or who has disabilities isn't going to want to have more transfers), but your commute isn't representative of others, and especially for bus service, the more people have to transfer, the more likely they are to not want to use bus service.  Instead of automatically cutting up the route, why not look to address the issues that plagues the route in the North Shore?  Cutting off North-South bus service on Staten Island has been done over and over and in just about each case, the result has been a decrease in ridership, forcing people off of buses.

Edited February 9, 2018 by Via Garibaldi 8

[checkmatechamp13]

9 minutes ago, Via Garibaldi 8 said:

Yeah and you seem to have no problem making connectivity more difficult by forcing people to transfer. That may work for your commute (you're young so you don't have a problem transferring from buses to subways, etc., but someone who is older or who has disabilities isn't going to want to have more transfers), but your commute isn't representative of others, and especially for bus service, the more people have to transfer, the more likely they are to not want to use bus service.  Instead of automatically cutting up the route, why not look to address the issues that plagues the route in the North Shore?  Cutting off North-South bus service on Staten Island has been done over and over and in just about each case, the result has been a decrease in ridership, forcing people off of buses.

2

Right, but I'm not talking about my commute (at least my regular commute), I'm talking about the commuting patterns of S78 riders. Hardly anybody travels from the North Shore all the way to the South Shore, so very few people would actually have to transfer. More people get screwed by the unreliable service on the S78 than would be screwed by having to transfer.

Yeah, there are issues that can be addressed on the northern portion. Being more careful about holding buses or not holding them for the ferry would help, as would adding a few short-turns by the SIE the way they did on the S74. And then straightening out the route to stop meandering through Stapleton (by swapping it with the S74 to straighten out both routes) would also help. Also, straightening it out to run straight down Steuben with the S79 and express buses (instead of running all the way by St. Joseph Hill with the S52 and S53) would help cut out some time. All that would definitely help, but if the benefits outweigh the costs (in terms of passenger time) then why not?

[B35 via Church]

1 hour ago, checkmatechamp13 said:

The simple answer would be that the M103 was from an era when the MTA had at least a little bit of logic to them: An era when they didn't go out and cut a bunch of routes claiming low ridership, only to turn around and create a bunch of routes with even lower ridership and claim that they don't have money for actual improvements.

If it were a similar situation today where the M101/102 went down to City Hall, I think the MTA would probably just split them at 23rd Street (23rd-City Hall and 23rd-Ft. George/Harlem) and call it a day. For the record, I'm not saying I agree with any of this, but I'm responding to EastFlatbushLarry's question regarding efficiency (So the answer is that no, nothing said that there wasn't enough demand/ridership to send the M55 to at least 57th Street, but in the MTA's stubbornness, they wanted to minimize the overlap. The original plan was to terminate both routes around 37th/38th Street, but after some complaints at the public hearing, they extended both routes a few more blocks and considered those complaints solved. And yes, I'm positive that the resemblance to the old M6 also played a role in that decision)

Little bit more logical or less frugal.....

Anyway, I got that you were answering Larry's question..... With that said, I would only be disagreeing with you if you are buying into the minimizing overlap bit as the reason that they never (publicly anyway) considered running buses up to 59th.... I deem that as nothing more than a convenient excuse.... Having the M55 connect to the infamous 42nd st. as a means of shutting up critics (regarding the original plan) isn't enough.... That's why I made that snide remark (aimed at the MTA, not you) about caring about ridership habits....

 

[Via Garibaldi 8]

1 hour ago, checkmatechamp13 said:

Right, but I'm not talking about my commute (at least my regular commute), I'm talking about the commuting patterns of S78 riders. Hardly anybody travels from the North Shore all the way to the South Shore, so very few people would actually have to transfer. More people get screwed by the unreliable service on the S78 than would be screwed by having to transfer.

Yeah, there are issues that can be addressed on the northern portion. Being more careful about holding buses or not holding them for the ferry would help, as would adding a few short-turns by the SIE the way they did on the S74. And then straightening out the route to stop meandering through Stapleton (by swapping it with the S74 to straighten out both routes) would also help. Also, straightening it out to run straight down Steuben with the S79 and express buses (instead of running all the way by St. Joseph Hill with the S52 and S53) would help cut out some time. All that would definitely help, but if the benefits outweigh the costs (in terms of passenger time) then why not?

Your position in general is to have people transfer. You've stated that numerous times. People don't like transferring and it should be pretty obvious why. Not only is it a PITA, but the more transfers you have to make, the more likely there is to be a problem at some point delaying the commute. That was proven time and again with things like the bus, ferry, subway set-up, but it's true in general.

Edited February 10, 2018 by Via Garibaldi 8

[checkmatechamp13]

1 hour ago, Via Garibaldi 8 said:

Your position in general is to have people transfer. You've stated that numerous times. People don't like transferring and it should be pretty obvious why. Not only is it a PITA, but the more transfers you have to make, the more likely there is to be a problem at some point delaying the commute. That was proven time and again with things like the bus, ferry, subway set-up, but it's true in general.

Yeah, I support having some people transfer if it makes sense. I also support lengthening routes to reduce transfers if that makes sense too. If there's an overall benefit, and it can be done at little or no cost (or better yet, if cost savings come out of it), then it's a good idea and should be implemented. In this particular case, there are overall benefits to be had by splitting the S78 in some form. Taking a good look at service on the North Shore would help even more, but it's not going to get rid of the fact that one of the reasons service is sub-par is the long length of the route.

Edited February 10, 2018 by checkmatechamp13

[Calvin]

7 hours ago, Future ENY OP said:

The accuracy. They had 3900-3960 before shipping over to MHV. 

3950-3959 are the ones to MHV

[Brillant93]

Tried taking the B41 via the Bergen Beach branch to work today but ended up taking my usual route. But I waited and the bus didn’t arrive for its scheduled time in the morning. It was frustrating because this is on a Saturday and the buses should run a lot more smoothly because there isn’t much traffic. So during the evening (when I am typing this) I decided to go to target in the junction and looked at the transit app and the bus was supposed to leave at 5:42.  But still never came. Ended up walking to flatlands to catch the bus. 

You know it’s really upsetting this route is. It never comes on time or close to and even on the weekends it just runs like hell. I really don’t know what would take this route to get better because it got an F on the bus turnaround report card. So it can’t get any worse? 

[RTSTdrive]

Looks like SC is getting a round of upgrades as well.. just got off 589 with info screens and wifi

[Brillant93]

6 minutes ago, RTSTdrive said:

Looks like SC is getting a round of upgrades as well.. just got off 589 with info screens and wifi

They had them for a while I believe. I remember riding the B100 and they had screens. It was odd because usually when they do upgrades like they I always expected them to put those buses in other areas of the city. 

[RTSTdrive]

3 hours ago, Brillant93 said:

They had them for a while I believe. I remember riding the B100 and they had screens. It was odd because usually when they do upgrades like they I always expected them to put those buses in other areas of the city. 

572 had them since early last year. 589 looks fairly recent and is different cuz it has working WiFi.

Edited February 12, 2018 by RTSTdrive

[Q64 To Forest Hills]

1 hour ago, RTSTdrive said:

572 had them since early last year. 589 looks fairly recent and is different cuz it has working WiFi.

570-658 will all get the info screens and WiFi. They were also slated for passenger counters but I don’t know the status of that at this point. 

[Lawrence St]

Why exactly was the Bx23 idea to Mount Vernon scrapped?

[paulrivera]

Look what I found:

[East New York]

16 hours ago, Q64 To Forest Hills said:

570-658 will all get the info screens and WiFi. They were also slated for passenger counters but I don’t know the status of that at this point. 

Every bus in the fleet including the RTS now have Wifi installed. It just needs to be activated on many of the buses. Info screen are going on everything 2011 and newer and the 1200's of course for right now, but anything could change. Passenger counters coming to all buses.

I am being told it's plan may change or have changed to screens on everything 2009 and Newer now.

[Around the Horn]

4 minutes ago, East New York said:

Every bus in the fleet including the RTS now have Wifi installed. It just needs to be activated on many of the buses. Info screen are going on everything 2011 and newer and the 1200's of course for right now, but anything could change. Passenger counters coming to all buses.

I am being told it's plan may change or have changed to screens on everything 2009 and Newer now.

Wheres the router on the RTS's? I don't see one on the ceiling like the XN40's, unless its much, much smaller.

Edited February 12, 2018 by Around the Horn

[Via Garibaldi 8]

10 minutes ago, East New York said:

Every bus in the fleet including the RTS now have Wifi installed. It just needs to be activated on many of the buses. Info screen are going on everything 2011 and newer and the 1200's of course for right now, but anything could change. Passenger counters coming to all buses.

I am being told it's plan may change or have changed to screens on everything 2009 and Newer now.

What the heck is a passenger counter exactly? Passenger counts have always been done manually with some worker tallying totals at stops.

[FLX9304]

With the new OTR express buses in the process of ordering, What color design would these buses be? Hopefully it will be green with a slice of blue/yellow

[BM5 via Woodhaven]

1 hour ago, FLX9304 said:

With the new OTR express buses in the process of ordering, What color design would these buses be? Hopefully it will be green with a slice of blue/yellow

This would be a perfect time to rebrand the MTA express bus service entirely (even give it a distinctive name). However, that's just gonna remain being a pipe dream. 

[SevenEleven]

8 hours ago, Via Garibaldi 8 said:

What the heck is a passenger counter exactly? Passenger counts have always been done manually with some worker tallying totals at stops.

It's literally a sensor that sits above the doors that tracks the movement of the passengers. 

 

[Via Garibaldi 8]

2 hours ago, SevenEleven said:

It's literally a sensor that sits above the doors that tracks the movement of the passengers. 

 

So it attempts to count passengers boarding AND exiting? How accurate is it?

[BreeddekalbL]

Anyone ever see this happen in nyc? GappenedHappened in toronto 

 

 

[FLX9304]

6 hours ago, BreeddekalbL said:

Anyone ever see this happen in nyc? GappenedHappened in toronto 

 

 

You would have to go waaaaay to 1995. I was in my second week for my last ever Messenger job in Manhattan when one lunatic looking guy was walking on 50th St from 10th all the way to 6th. I was on 4547 on the M50 (at that time, it was running out of 126th St Depot) right in front of the bus until a cop came. He ran for a block until he got to fifth avenue before he was nabbed. He kept flipping the bird to the driver a few after he blew his horn.