R211 Discussion Thread

[Lawrence St]

Uh, wasn't Kawasaki suppose to wait until the pilot was here before starting the production units?

[Around the Horn]

44 minutes ago, Lawrence St said:

Uh, wasn't Kawasaki suppose to wait until the pilot was here before starting the production units?

that is the pilot in the video.

[Lawrence St]

6 minutes ago, Around the Horn said:

that is the pilot in the video.

Aren't the pilots built in Japan first?

[Mysterious2train]

18 hours ago, Around the Horn said:

Here they are in all their glory: (not my video)

 

A bit bland that the B-cars don't have any color to them, especially compared to the M-8s shown in the same video!

One of the many renderings did show a blue horizontal stripe on the bottom with diagonal yellow stripe, but it looks like it was only on the A-cars and was replaced by the diagonal stripes. The wraps on the R160s come off as tacky to me (I think because they were added later on, compared to being an "intrinsic" part of the design like with the M9s and R211s, at least once the designs were finalized/hijacked by Cuomo) but I do at least like that on them the blue continues on the side of the A-cars onto the B-cars (though I don't love the blue wrap being on the top half). Ideal for me would've been the horizontal blue stripe on the bottom half of all the cars with the thin yellow stripe above that.

 

 

 

Edited February 25, 2021 by Mysterious2train

[T to Dyre Avenue]

On 2/24/2021 at 5:45 PM, Around the Horn said:

Here they are in all their glory: (not my video)

Am I seeing things, or does the front door window look wider than what we saw in previous photos/videos?

5 hours ago, Mysterious2train said:

A bit bland that the B-cars don't have any color to them, especially compared to the M-8s shown in the same video!

One of the many renderings did show a blue horizontal stripe on the bottom with diagonal yellow stripe, but it looks like it was only on the A-cars and was replaced by the diagonal stripes. The wraps on the R160s come off as tacky to me (I think because they were added later on, compared to being an "intrinsic" part of the design like with the M9s and R211s, at least once the designs were finalized/hijacked by Cuomo) but I do at least like that on them the blue continues on the side of the A-cars onto the B-cars (though I don't love the blue wrap being on the top half). Ideal for me would've been the horizontal blue stripe on the bottom half of all the cars with the thin yellow stripe above that.

Fully agreed that the B-cars could use a little color. I know MTA management are all about the penny pinching, but I really don’t think it wound bankrupt the MTA if they had a blue stripe on the sides. It could even be with a thin yellow stripe on top like you suggested. The stripes don’t have to be painted; they could be a wrap, like on the Cuomo R160s. I mean, please...just a little color. 

[Storm]

4 hours ago, T to Dyre Avenue said:

The stripes don’t have to be painted; they could be a wrap, like on the Cuomo R160s. I mean, please...just a little color.

Am I seeing things, or does the front door window look wider than what we saw in previous photos/videos? 

1. Wow, look at us, getting all picky. Well, it makes sense. We havent had any color on the cars since the 70's-80's. So it would make sense to add some color to the 211's. But the 's ridership JUST started slightly increasing, so my prediction would be no color until the 262's.

2. Another case of the  changing their minds.

12 hours ago, Lawrence St said:

Aren't the pilots built in Japan first?

Yes, but not all of them.

 

[R68ACTrain]

21 hours ago, Lawrence St said:

Aren't the pilots built in Japan first?

Those the Ts.

[Bill from Maspeth]

Deleted

Edited February 26, 2021 by Bill from Maspeth

[rbrome]

I prefer the sleek stainless steel look, inside and out. IMHO, the added blue and yellow just adds visual noise and won't age well. 

[T to Dyre Avenue]

Maybe not all over, but I think something like this - 

https://www.nycsubway.org/perl/show?7654

or this - 

https://www.nycsubway.org/perl/show?108103

would still look fine today. I can agree the “Cuomo colors” on the R160s is too much. 

 

 

 

[R32 3838]

the car in japan is just one car. the rest of the order is being built here. the 1st R211T set is currently being built in Nebraska right now after a delay.

 

with the chip shortages, don't be surprised if these cars get delayed even more.

[rbrome]

On 2/26/2021 at 2:09 PM, T to Dyre Avenue said:

Maybe not all over, but I think something like this - 

https://www.nycsubway.org/perl/show?7654

or this - 

https://www.nycsubway.org/perl/show?108103

would still look fine today. I can agree the “Cuomo colors” on the R160s is too much. 

 

 

 

Exactly. A single stripe. or a simple door color would be perfect. For example, I like the dark blue fronts on the R211s, but you don't need much more than that. 

[bulk88]

So.... if NYCT cars have paint, wont it all come off during graphitti removal? Is that why all cars are naked stainless steel and the wrap is replaced? or are the wraps acetone proof?

[Trainmaster5]

On 2/26/2021 at 5:04 PM, R32 3838 said:

the car in japan is just one car. the rest of the order is being built here. the 1st R211T set is currently being built in Nebraska right now after a delay.

 

with the chip shortages, don't be surprised if these cars get delayed even more.

Does anyone out there know the production order for Kawasaki rail cars ? Some of us LIRR riders wonder if the R211 cars will become the subway version of the Unicorn . The Unicorn aka the M9 rail cars are a rarity on the LIRR which seem to be in a production delay at Kawasaki. I believe that there was a variant for Metro North proposed , too. I personally think that these timelines are extremely optimistic but I can be wrong. How many separate production lines are in operation  ? Just curious.  Carry on. 

[Around the Horn]

On 3/6/2021 at 2:24 PM, bulk88 said:

So.... if NYCT cars have paint, wont it all come off during graphitti removal? Is that why all cars are naked stainless steel and the wrap is replaced? or are the wraps acetone proof?

For the R211s the stripe is a wrap except for the doors which are made with blue metal

[trainfan22]

From reddit which got it from MTA IG page...

 

 

 

I'm kind of disappointed the headlights aren't blue LED's, oh well.

Edited March 13, 2021 by trainfan22

[T to Dyre Avenue]

On 3/8/2021 at 1:06 AM, Around the Horn said:

For the R211s the stripe is a wrap except for the doors which are made with blue metal

 

Blue metal? I thought it was paint, like the R32 doors were before they were overhauled in 1989-90. 

12 hours ago, trainfan22 said:

From reddit which got it from MTA IG page...

 

 

I'm kind of disappointed the headlights aren't blue LED's, oh well.

I thought the headlights have to be a yellowish-white per safety regulations. But it appears that the front door window is going to be wider than what I saw in previous photos.

[rbrome]

2 hours ago, T to Dyre Avenue said:

Blue metal? I thought it was paint, like the R32 doors were before they were overhauled in 1989-90. 

It's likely blue enamel, a very durable kind of paint (often cured with heat, like they do for cars.) 

 

2 hours ago, T to Dyre Avenue said:

I thought the headlights have to be a yellowish-white per safety regulations. 

Huh. Your comment sparked some light research on my part.

Apparently the American Assoc. of Railroads does have a "recommendation" that locomotive LED headlights be 2,700 K – 3,300 K, which is between "warm white" and "soft white" LED bulbs for the home. That's roughly the color temp. of traditional halogen headlight bulbs, which is relatively warm ("yellowish"). (I'm not sure why, as I think most people find that a slightly cooler color temp. offers better visibility.) 

But I can't find any hard regulations from the FRA or anyone else about LED headlight color temp. Suppliers make them as cool as 7,000 K, which is quite cool (relatively "blue", but definitely still white.) I think it's up to the MTA. They may want to keep them a warmer color temp. just because that's operators are familiar with. Or perhaps they just left it up to Kawasaki. 

Edited March 13, 2021 by rbrome

[T to Dyre Avenue]

31 minutes ago, rbrome said:

It's likely blue enamel, a very durable kind of paint (often cured with heat, like they do for cars.) 

 

Huh. Your comment sparked some light research on my part.

Apparently the American Assoc. of Railroads does have a "recommendation" that locomotive LED headlights be 2,700 K – 3,300 K, which is between "warm white" and "soft white" LED bulbs for the home. That's roughly the color temp. of traditional halogen headlight bulbs, which is relatively warm ("yellowish"). (I'm not sure why, as I think most people find that a slightly cooler color temp. offers better visibility.) 

But I can't find any hard regulations from the FRA or anyone else about LED headlight color temp. Suppliers make them as cool as 7,000 K, which is quite cool (relatively "blue", but definitely still white.) I think it's up to the MTA. They may want to keep them a warmer color temp. just because that's operators are familiar with. Or perhaps they just left it up to Kawasaki. 

Could be. I’ve never actually heard of any hard regulations calling for the headlights to look yellow (and there might not be) either. But most every train headlight I’ve seen has either that yellowish-white glow or maybe something closer to plain white. I’m just going by my eyes. 

[Eric B]

Some 160's were retrofitted with LED headlights, and they are the standard "cool white" (prob. 5000K)

[trainfan22]

According to this article, the first cars could come this week...... or they could be delayed until June. 

https://www.ny1.com/nyc/all-boroughs/transit/2021/03/30/newest-mta-train-model-continues-to-face-delays-amid-covid-19

[R32 3838]

4 minutes ago, trainfan22 said:

According to this article, the first cars could come this week...... or they could be delayed until June. 

https://www.ny1.com/nyc/all-boroughs/transit/2021/03/30/newest-mta-train-model-continues-to-face-delays-amid-covid-19

 

These are gonna come in very slow. We have a semi conductor (chip) shortage. so the base order is gonna come in very slow. This is one of the big reasons for the delays. this affects everything from vehicles to electronics.

[K Train 8 Av-Fulton]

If I were to predict something to this new order, I'd say we could give the R211T's to the  Train first. Since the was the only line without any technology trains, besides the  and Franklin Avenue  , since they only ran R68/As. The on Franklin Avenue never ran R68As, only 9 of the remaining R68s from 2916-2924.

[subwaycommuter1983]

7 hours ago, K Train 8 Av-Fulton said:

If I were to predict something to this new order, I'd say we could give the R211T's to the  Train first. Since the was the only line without any technology trains, besides the  and Franklin Avenue  , since they only ran R68/As. The on Franklin Avenue never ran R68As, only 9 of the remaining R68s from 2916-2924.

The r211T's need to go to lines that have huge ridership. The A, E, F have much higher ridership than the G. The base order of r211T's, which is only 2 ten car trains need to go to the E, which has the highest ridership on the B division.

The G should get the 8 car r179's from the C because the G will still need longer trains and the C needs to be 100% 10 car trains.

[T to Dyre Avenue]

They also need to go on lines whose cars are dropping like flies at a bug zapper (looking at you,  lines).