SUBWAY - Random Thoughts Topic

[FLX9304]

2 minutes ago, CyclonicTrainLookout said:

Pretty sure there were already plans on replacing signals at Lexington Avenue with CPTC sometime in the future in line with R262 deliveries (which I don't think even came out of the planning stages). Lexington Avenue CBTC was pushed back in favor of replacing IND signals with CBTC first.

I wonder where would they get the money for the Broadway-7th Ave CBTC from. They gotta phase the project first before anything comes up.  

[Calvin]

The  ending at 57 St-6th Av is now rotated to end at the northbound track starting Monday while the Shuttle as well will run on the Queens bound track instead of the Brooklyn-bound track. 

[Vulturious]

https://www.governor.ny.gov/news/governor-hochul-announces-plans-expand-major-transit-projects-and-improve-roadway-safety

Quote

Second Avenue Subway West Extension

Under Governor Hochul’s leadership, Phase Two of the Second Avenue Subway has gone from a dream to a fully funded project that is ready for construction. Looking to the future, the MTA will evaluate, scope and plan for another extension of the Second Avenue Subway west along 125th Street, adding three new stops at Lenox Avenue, St. Nicholas Avenue, and Broadway in Harlem. This extension would create connections with seven existing lines and serve 240,000 daily customers, with more than 90 percent of them from equity communities. It would also significantly reduce bus congestion along 125th Street, where more than 30,000 people ride the bus along this corridor every day.

This project scored well on the MTA’s 20 Year Needs Assessment, particularly for its cost effectiveness. In advance of environmental review and preliminary engineering, MTA will evaluate the feasibility of performing the initial tunneling work as a continuation of the Phase Two tunneling work and extending the tunnel boring machine’s westward path beyond Park Avenue to Broadway. If viable, this approach could save over $400 million over the life of the project.

Engineering the Interborough Express

In 2022, Governor Hochul set out the bold vision for the Interborough Express – a new service in Brooklyn and Queens that would use the existing right-of-way of the Bay Ridge Branch, connecting ethnically and socioeconomically diverse neighborhoods such as Bay Ridge, Sunset Park, Borough Park, Kensington, Midwood, Flatbush, Flatlands, New Lots, Brownsville, East New York, Bushwick, Ridgewood, Middle Village, Maspeth, Elmhurst and Jackson Heights. This project has the potential to provide connections to up to 17 subway lines, reducing travel times between the two boroughs by 30 minutes and serve 40 million riders a year. At Governor Hochul’s direction, the MTA will now initiate formal engineering of the IBX.

Glad to see the potential of a westward extension is being realized. 

[7-express]

In the 90s and 00s when the Redbirds were on the 7, I remember them occasionally turning off the ceiling lights on the above ground segments.  Was there any particular reason this was done or was it more of a relic of the energy savings measures from the 70s/80s?

[Lex]

12 minutes ago, 7-express said:

In the 90s and 00s when the Redbirds were on the 7, I remember them occasionally turning off the ceiling lights on the above ground segments.  Was there any particular reason this was done or was it more of a relic of the energy savings measures from the 70s/80s?

Unless you're talking about the lights being off for an extended period of time (you may see this elsewhere, such as WPR), I'd expect that to be a quirk of things like hitting third rail gaps.

[Kriston Lewis]

38 minutes ago, 7-express said:

In the 90s and 00s when the Redbirds were on the 7, I remember them occasionally turning off the ceiling lights on the above ground segments.  Was there any particular reason this was done or was it more of a relic of the energy savings measures from the 70s/80s?

During summer months, it was policy to turn off interior car lights along outdoor segments during daylight hours. I’m certain it was for energy efficiency. I think this is still in place, but rarely seen in practice today. I recall a sign on the right of way on the Brighton Line that says “LIGHTS ON” near Newkirk Plaza. Some bus operators do the same as well.

Edited January 9 by Kriston Lewis
Context

[7-express]

19 hours ago, Kriston Lewis said:

During summer months, it was policy to turn off interior car lights along outdoor segments during daylight hours. I’m certain it was for energy efficiency. I think this is still in place, but rarely seen in practice today. I recall a sign on the right of way on the Brighton Line that says “LIGHTS ON” near Newkirk Plaza. Some bus operators do the same as well.

Thanks for that.  I do recall seeing an old pic a while back of the Lights On sign.  I definitely haven't seen the practice in the last decade, especially since newer trains showed up.  I do notice lights going off on the express bus but that's usually on the express segments at night when folks want to sleep.

[7-express]

19 hours ago, Lex said:

Unless you're talking about the lights being off for an extended period of time (you may see this elsewhere, such as WPR), I'd expect that to be a quirk of things like hitting third rail gaps.

It was for an extended time from the Main Street portal to Hunters Point Ave.

[nightmare402]

apparently  

 

Edited January 10 by nightmare402

[darkstar8983]

23 hours ago, Vulturious said:

https://www.governor.ny.gov/news/governor-hochul-announces-plans-expand-major-transit-projects-and-improve-roadway-safety

Glad to see the potential of a westward extension is being realized. 

Not sure if 3 stations would be needed (unless one of them is already 125 St/Lexington Av). Maybe just two strategically placed stations can cover it.

The three stations in that case could be

1. 125 St - Amsterdam Av (West end of platform connects to  train and east end of platform connects to )

2. 125 St - Lenox Av (center of platform connects to  trains. 

3. 125 St - Lexington Av (west end of platform connects to Metro-North and east-end connects to )

 

Or alternatively, we could have the 125 St-Lenox Av Station positioned on Adam Clayton Powell Blvd (7 Av) connecting the  (east end) to the  (west end), and then move the 125 St-Amsterdam Av Station to 125 St-Broadway (or 125 St-Riverside) to connect the research buildings near there to the  train and West End. This latter proposal could also allow for connections from SAS to Homeball Alley (all trains would skip 135 St from SAS and could connect SAS to Washington Heights or Concourse).

 

Bellmouths (I think that what they're called) also need to be installed near 116 St to allow the Bronx Extension, but the Bronx Section would need to run to a lower level of SAS to allow express service (at least stopping at 96 St OR 72 St) to connect to Local SAS trains coming from the West Side and 125 St. Otherwise, you're going to under-serve one of the two corridors to a measly 12 trains per hour during peak hours, assuming 24 TPH on the entire line. This routing would permanently divorce Astoria from the  train or at the very least, divorce the Astoria line from the Broadway Express due to the need to run two routes on SAS. The Bronx Extension could go to 3 Av-149 St at first, and then we could see where that goes.

 

For Broadway, this routing would permanently leave the line with 4 services at all times except late nights (when the Queens Blvd connection would not run), since you'd need:

1. Astoria-Broadway service - the  from Astoria-Ditmars Blvd to Bay Ridge-95 St (some rush hour trips between Ditmars Blvd and Canal St)

2. 2 Av (125 St branch)- Broadway service - the  from 125 St-Broadway to Coney Island (via Sea Beach) 

3. 2 Av (Bronx branch) - Broadway service - the  from 3 Av-149 St to Coney Island (Brighton Local)

4. Queens Blvd (71 Av) - Broadway service - the  from 71 Av to Whitehall St (no night service)

*All routes local late nights between 57 St-7 Av and Canal St to provide local service, unless there's enough room to have the  remain express while the nighttime  run local (or make the  local and keep the  express), doesn't matter.

With respect to subway car availability, with the planned R211s (assuming all 1612 cars are ordered), there will be enough cars to staff all routes with an appropriate level of service as follows:

 

Assuming the R68/R68A cars will handle the  until the R68/R68A replacements show up:

 - 200 R68 cars (25 trains) needed to make service (the running time from 57 St-7 Av to 125 St-Broadway would be negligible to a run from 57 St-7 Av to Ditmars Blvd), so you would need technically 23 trains to make service (assuming the same service frequency). An additional 2 trains were added since now both terminating tracks at 125 St would be used by the  as opposed to only 1 terminating track under the current terminal operation for the at Ditmars Blvd, where each service gets one track. 

:: 200 R68 cars + 52 cars as spares = 252 R68s (2500-2751)

 - 200 R68 cars (25 trains) needed to make service (getting this figure from when the  ran to Astoria from 2010-2016, and needed the same number of trains to make service as the  at the time - 23 trains for Coney Island-Astoria service via Brighton Local/Broadway Express). A Bronx extension to 3 Av-149 St would be negligible to running to Ditmars Blvd again, and add two trains for good measure (two terminating tracks to store trains in as opposed to when the  served Astoria and each only had one track. 

:: 144 R68 cars + 56 R68As to make service + 52 cars as spares = 252 R68/R68As (2752-2916, 5001-5088)

 - 170 R160 cars (17 trains) needed to make service (getting this figure from when the  was split in 2013-2014 and the north section ran from 71 Av to Whitehall St - at the time, 170 R160s were needed to provide service on the north end, but service ran every 7.5 minutes, and there were no thru-trains to Brooklyn present to muck up operations, so this time, we will need to terminate a few extra trains at Canal St and reverse them to 71 Av to keep operations at Whitehall St fluid.

:: 160 R160 cars + 60 spare R160s = 220 cars (assuming we are counting from the higher numbered R160s - 9723-9942)

 - 96 R68A cars + 170 R160 cars (29 trains) needed to make service. This figure is generated from the remaining cars available after all R46 retirements and all other R211s and R160s were assigned and covered the remainder of the B division. The running time from Astoria to 59 St-Brooklyn (via local) is only 1 hour and 6 minutes, then 8 minutes for running from 59 St to Bay Ridge-95 St, leaving a running time of 74 minutes the same running time the train is now (via Express). Assuming the  will run the same frequency as thee current along the full route, you will need minimally 24 trains to cover the route. Then, any leftover trains will provide Astoria-Canal St rush hour service. 

:: 96 R68A cars + 170 R160 cars (to make service = 29 trains), then a spare factor of 24 R68A cars + 30 R160 cars (5089-5200, 8653-8842)

**This is not to say how cars would be assigned, but to show that it would be possible to do these routes under a two-branched SAS extension, or even just a 125 St extension where both the  run via 2 Av but to one common terminal. The difference I guess would be whether the  would be shorted to a late night shuttle from Coney Island to Whitehall St, or just have both routes go to 125 St via 2 Av. 

 

 

Edited January 10 by darkstar8983

[Lawrence St]

11 minutes ago, darkstar8983 said:

Not sure if 3 stations would be needed (unless one of them is already 125 St/Lexington Av). Maybe just two strategically placed stations can cover it.

The three stations in that case could be

1. 125 St - Amsterdam Av (West end of platform connects to  train and east end of platform connects to )

2. 125 St - Lenox Av (center of platform connects to  trains. 

3. 125 St - Lexington Av (west end of platform connects to Metro-North and east-end connects to )

 

Or alternatively, we could have the 125 St-Lenox Av Station positioned on Adam Clayton Powell Blvd (7 Av) connecting the  (east end) to the  (west end), and then move the 125 St-Amsterdam Av Station to 125 St-Broadway (or 125 St-Riverside) to connect the research buildings near there to the  train and West End. This latter proposal could also allow for connections from SAS to Homeball Alley (all trains would skip 135 St from SAS and could connect SAS to Washington Heights or Concourse).

 

Bellmouths (I think that what they're called) also need to be installed near 116 St to allow the Bronx Extension, but the Bronx Section would need to run to a lower level of SAS to allow express service (at least stopping at 96 St OR 72 St) to connect to Local SAS trains coming from the West Side and 125 St. Otherwise, you're going to under-serve one of the two corridors to a measly 12 trains per hour during peak hours, assuming 24 TPH on the entire line. This routing would permanently divorce Astoria from the  train or at the very least, divorce the Astoria line from the Broadway Express due to the need to run two routes on SAS. The Bronx Extension could go to 3 Av-149 St at first, and then we could see where that goes.

 

I actually have a wild idea:

Forget the crosstown or phases 3 & 4. Extend the  into the Bronx following the right of way of the Harlem Line, and build the elevated right above the Harlem Line (essentially doing a bi-level) to Wakefield.

[JustTheSIR]

would you look at that. 
https://twitter.com/julestrainman/status/1745151078872580116

MTA starting the year strong eh? It hasn’t even been a month…

[biGC323232]

1 hour ago, JustTheSIR said:

would you look at that. 
https://twitter.com/julestrainman/status/1745151078872580116

MTA starting the year strong eh? It hasn’t even been a month…

Wow...Hope no one got seriously hurt...

[CenSin]

Seeing cops catch fare evaders at both Coney Island entrances puts a smile on my face. They are finally cracking down. 🥲

A third one who had just entered through the gate saw the cops giving the chase to the guy before him and noped out of there. 😂

Edited January 11 by CenSin

[Vulturious]

Credit to the original photographer:

There is an R142A (7641-7645 and an unknown set) that is idling in Pitkin Yard. It was transferred over last night getting new equipment like new brakes and has cables all throughout the car likely to be tested. Apparently this same exact set wasn't seen in service for weeks. 

Edited January 11 by Vulturious

[checkmatechamp13]

I guess he was looking for the park-and-ride 

https://abc7ny.com/crash-subway-entrance-washington-heights-nyc/14099841/#:~:text=Twenty-five-year-old,at around 9%3A30 a.m.

[Chris89292]

51 minutes ago, Vulturious said:

Credit to the original photographer:

There is an R142A (7641-7645 and an unknown set) that is idling in Pitkin Yard. It was transferred over last night getting new equipment like new brakes and has cables all throughout the car likely to be tested. Apparently this same exact set wasn't seen in service for weeks. 

Could it be a first CBTC converted R142 set??

[JustTheSIR]

53 minutes ago, Chris89292 said:

Could it be a first CBTC converted R142 set??

I see shattered glass in the door window so I think it’s there because it was vandalized, but doesn’t the A-Division have their own yards for that?

[IAlam]

On 1/9/2024 at 6:45 PM, Kriston Lewis said:

During summer months, it was policy to turn off interior car lights along outdoor segments during daylight hours. I’m certain it was for energy efficiency. I think this is still in place, but rarely seen in practice today. I recall a sign on the right of way on the Brighton Line that says “LIGHTS ON” near Newkirk Plaza. Some bus operators do the same as well.

It still happens on the , on hot summer days, just not done by all crew members..

[Lawrence St]

According to NYCRail on twitter, a game studio is making a horror game about the mythical 76th St station. It looks cool as hell!

[ABOGbrooklyn]

Why cant they put spikes on top of the train cars to determine kids from train surfing?

[nightmare402]

40 minutes ago, ABOGbrooklyn said:

Why cant they put spikes on top of the train cars to determine kids from train surfing?

no

[Lex]

1 hour ago, ABOGbrooklyn said:

Why cant they put spikes on top of the train cars to determine kids from train surfing?

This is a joke, right?

[B35 via Church]

1 hour ago, ABOGbrooklyn said:

Why cant they put spikes on top of the train cars to determine kids from train surfing?

Because they don't want to piss off the pigeons anymore than they already have.

(as an aside, Newkirk on the Brighton line used to be a haven for those SOB's)

18 minutes ago, Lex said:

This is a joke, right?

The scary part is, he's not the first person I've seen suggest that.

If one of those things were to fall off a moving train while I'm waiting on the platform & gets me right in the eye, best believe I'm suing the piss out of them.... You don't try to deter stupidity by also doing something stupid.... Two wrongs is said to not make something called a right.

Edited January 13 by B35 via Church

[Lawrence St]

I always said to install sensors right at portals & areas of high subway surfing incidents. The sensor trip would immediately stop the train safely and notify NYPD.