BUS - Random Thoughts Thread

[King Transit]

8 hours ago, NBTA said:

I'm bored, so I thought it would be a good idea to share my thoughts of every Xcelsior that we have, in order of favorite to least favorite.
2012 XD60s: Started the artic Xcelsior, they sound amazing, and they remind me of the D60's a little bit with the way the transmission sounds like on the Allison buses. The ZFs sound well too. Sad to see them leave the Bronx, plus, they are beat to shit too. 
2016/2017 XN40s: They sound very unique, and usually I'd favor the artic version of these, but these sound way better, and the hydraulics go crazy on these buses too. 
2015 XD60s (ZF): They ride very nice, they are possibly the smoothest sounding Xcelsiors that we have, but they are only in MTA Bus, and there's only 75, so they are usually scarce. They are VERY fast however. 
2019 XD60s: The L9s are some very nice sounding engines, besides that, they are basic, unless if MTA Bus gets ZF 2019's. 
2011 XD40s: Sounds VERY nice, but, just like the 2012 and 2015 XD60s, kinda scarce, since they are only in one borough, or two depots. They ride very nice though.
2017 XD60s: They sadly replaced the LFSAs in Stengel, which broke my heart, but they remind me of Voith transmission buses (personally, I don't like Voiths, but they sound good.)
2018 XN60s: Eh.......they have some loud ass backfires, but besides that, I'd rather have an XN40.
2015 XD40s:.............................................................................................................................................................GET RID OF THEM 
They need work, the general consensus probably agrees that they are the worst performing/preferred Xcelsiors in the city, there are moments though, where they sound nice. 

TBH, I am mostly an Xcelsior fan.

My Xcelsior ranks....

1. NFI XE60s and XDE60s(wish to come to MTA)

2. NFI XN60s

3. 2018-2019 NFI XD60s

4. 2017 -19 NFI XD40s

5. 2017 NFI XD60s

6. 2017 NFI XN40s

7. 2015 - 16 NFI XD60s

8. 2014 - 2015 XD40s

9. 2012-13 NFI XD60s

10. 2011- 12 NFI XD40s

Though the XDE60s may have the auto engine pause feature for less emission and less annoyance of idling vibration, it can tie with my excellent taste to win with the XDE40s as their co - workers. Plus XE60s are winners over the XDEs with strictly electric source and no maintenaince recommendations, but they are still here for inspections. The XN60s are toughest and powerful ones, especially with a heavy duty backfire I adore. The recent XD60s have my great taste with the 2018-19 XD40s by the all time inside and outside announcements and the best, Cummins L9(like the XN60s, but has the Near Zero rate as much better than the regular Cummins L9). Back in 2017, the XN40s didn't have the XN60s yet so I had the XD60s win over them along with the 2015-17 XD60s. But the XN40s are tough and quiet like their recent rulers(XN60s). The 2014-15 XD40s were my first favorites due to their destination signs, the sweet air conditions, and the engine was quiet as I expected. Plus their rear doors are in full panes that best matches their designs. I still like the 2012-13 XD60s, but I never rode them and I am waiting for them to run out of Grand Ave and East New York. I like the 2011-12(4800s) XD40s, but are my least favorites because of the loudest engine it has and the rear doors are less appealing for it's body design(but has a smart reminder of the older buses that are likeable for every one).

In my YT channel, the explanations will be shown my bus reviews(like this) and followed by other Xcelsior reviews in this channel...

 

 

Edited July 19, 2019 by King Transit

[Around the Horn]

Alright since we're doing rankings...

1. 2017 XN40 that ZF transmission and the HVAC whistle/ring nuff said

2. 2011 XD40 the Allison growl on these is fantastic; best build quality of all our Xcelsiors IMO

3. 2018 XDE40s I rank the BAE ahead of the Allison but they're both good

4. 2017 XD60s I swear these sound like they have Voiths and I LOVE IT!

5. 2017 -19 XD40s They fixed the issues I had with the 2015s on this order and they look great with blue and gold

6. 2018 XN60s the backfire/ring especially going uphill

7. 2018-2019 XD60s They don't sound like they Voiths like the 2017s so I'm docking them a bit but I do like the growl

8. 2015 - 16 XD60s/ 2012-13 XD60s I'm combining these two because I haven't been on them much and they didn't really stand out to me

9. 2014 - 2015 XD40s The absolute worse Xcelsiors we have... They rattle too much, they shake violently while accelerating and they're painfully slow

 

 

Edited July 19, 2019 by Around the Horn

[Calvin]

Around 9PM today, while taking the M66 from Lincoln Center to the West Side Broadway, the bus is normal the way it is (such as seats used and finding a seat on the bus). However, while reaching to 5 Av and E. 67 St, there is a M72 behind as both the M66/72 made a stop. The M66, took at least 5-6+ minutes waiting because there's a huge line to board the bus. Then, at that time, the M66 was full as the bus op quoted "The bus is full, wait for the next one".

I wonder if the M66 is normally packed at that hour. (It was full all the way to the last stop west). 

Edited July 19, 2019 by Calvin

[bwwnyc123]

I like XN40 and XN60 more than XD40 and XD60.

[XcelsiorBoii4888]

8 hours ago, Around the Horn said:

Alright since we're doing rankings...

1. 2017 XN40 that ZF transmission and the HVAC whistle/ring nuff said

2. 2011 XD40 the Allison growl on these is fantastic; best build quality of all our Xcelsiors IMO

3. 2018 XDE40s I rank the BAE ahead of the Allison but they're both good

4. 2017 XD60s I swear these sound like they have Voiths and I LOVE IT!

5. 2017 -19 XD40s They fixed the issues I had with the 2015s on this order and they look great with blue and gold

6. 2018 XN60s the backfire/ring especially going uphill

7. 2018-2019 XD60s They don't sound like they Voiths like the 2017s so I'm docking them a bit but I do like the growl

8. 2015 - 16 XD60s/ 2012-13 XD60s I'm combining these two because I haven't been on them much and they didn't really stand out to me

9. 2014 - 2015 XD40s The absolute worse Xcelsiors we have... They rattle too much, they shake violently while accelerating and they're painfully slow

 

 

Those 2011 XD40s will forever be my favorite buses. I loved the original transmission set up, but even when LBSS came along it really make them buses go to work to pull out all of the sound effects. Haven't been on them as much when they received the newer modifications, but they're still some fast buses and are holding up pretty well..

You definitely CANNOT compare those 2012 XD60s to the 2015 XD60s. Those 2015s are some smooth workhorses! When ever that stupid ZF retarder noise isn't going off (that raspy ringing sound), them buses have some dope bass. I've had some operators moving them buses down Lefferts to the Airport that justified their quality. I've never been on the Bronx ones so I feel like they're already so beat up you can't even evaluate them anymore. 

 

[King Transit]

11 hours ago, Around the Horn said:

Alright since we're doing rankings...

1. 2017 XN40 that ZF transmission and the HVAC whistle/ring nuff said

2. 2011 XD40 the Allison growl on these is fantastic; best build quality of all our Xcelsiors IMO

3. 2018 XDE40s I rank the BAE ahead of the Allison but they're both good

4. 2017 XD60s I swear these sound like they have Voiths and I LOVE IT!

5. 2017 -19 XD40s They fixed the issues I had with the 2015s on this order and they look great with blue and gold

6. 2018 XN60s the backfire/ring especially going uphill

7. 2018-2019 XD60s They don't sound like they Voiths like the 2017s so I'm docking them a bit but I do like the growl

8. 2015 - 16 XD60s/ 2012-13 XD60s I'm combining these two because I haven't been on them much and they didn't really stand out to me

9. 2014 - 2015 XD40s The absolute worse Xcelsiors we have... They rattle too much, they shake violently while accelerating and they're painfully slow

 

 

Yes, the BAE Prop systems does win over Allison for a best hybrid match. The lazer SFX of the acceleration and the peacefulness makes it one of the top 3 best Xcelsiors.

[XcelsiorBoii4888]

I rode 2516 on the SIM1 today and my goodness the shocks on this Prevost....wtf happened...I've never been on a bus with the suspension THIS BAD. Honestly this has to be a lemon because I ride Castleton's batch a lot and never came across anything like this. 

[Via Garibaldi 8]

1 hour ago, XcelsiorBoii4888 said:

I rode 2516 on the SIM1 today and my goodness the shocks on this Prevost....wtf happened...I've never been on a bus with the suspension THIS BAD. Honestly this has to be a lemon because I ride Castleton's batch a lot and never came across anything like this. 

Heh you'd be surprised. Castleton Depot is a real piece of work... 

[Via Garibaldi 8]

21 hours ago, Calvin said:

Around 9PM today, while taking the M66 from Lincoln Center to the West Side Broadway, the bus is normal the way it is (such as seats used and finding a seat on the bus). However, while reaching to 5 Av and E. 67 St, there is a M72 behind as both the M66/72 made a stop. The M66, took at least 5-6+ minutes waiting because there's a huge line to board the bus. Then, at that time, the M66 was full as the bus op quoted "The bus is full, wait for the next one".

I wonder if the M66 is normally packed at that hour. (It was full all the way to the last stop west). 

Yes... The M66 sees good usage... Hunter College, Lincoln Center... The hospitals on the East Side... 

[Around the Horn]

5 hours ago, XcelsiorBoii4888 said:

I rode 2516 on the SIM1 today and my goodness the shocks on this Prevost....wtf happened...I've never been on a bus with the suspension THIS BAD. Honestly this has to be a lemon because I ride Castleton's batch a lot and never came across anything like this. 

I'll bet you that's one of the buses that was running all the time with standees last year with the whole SIM thing...

[XcelsiorBoii4888]

5 hours ago, Around the Horn said:

I'll bet you that's one of the buses that was running all the time with standees last year with the whole SIM thing...

Yeah man this bus we were in the bus lane on the Gowanus and its known for being a bumpy ride. This bus was shaking after hitting every bump just making the ride extra jiggly and annoying. 2516 give it a try, it's funny because there's really some solid buses still in service so this caught me all the way by surprise and now I see why people "think" these buses have bad suspension, they've probably been on some beat up ones. I'm telling you 2632-2669, the high 27xxs and others are in really good condition. Seems like new...Yukons batch I'm convinced has a lot that has been overworked and when most "fanners" come to S.I they take the X1/SIM1, so I'm not surprised if they ride on a bad bus. 

[DetSMART45]

On 7/18/2019 at 11:09 PM, Around the Horn said:

Alright since we're doing rankings...

1. 2017 XN40 that ZF transmission and the HVAC whistle/ring nuff said

2. 2011 XD40 the Allison growl on these is fantastic; best build quality of all our Xcelsiors IMO

3. 2018 XDE40s I rank the BAE ahead of the Allison but they're both good

4. 2017 XD60s I swear these sound like they have Voiths and I LOVE IT!

5. 2017 -19 XD40s They fixed the issues I had with the 2015s on this order and they look great with blue and gold

6. 2018 XN60s the backfire/ring especially going uphill

7. 2018-2019 XD60s They don't sound like they Voiths like the 2017s so I'm docking them a bit but I do like the growl

8. 2015 - 16 XD60s/ 2012-13 XD60s I'm combining these two because I haven't been on them much and they didn't really stand out to me

9. 2014 - 2015 XD40s The absolute worse Xcelsiors we have... They rattle too much, they shake violently while accelerating and they're painfully slow

 

 

Although our DDOT Xcelsior fleet is slowly increasing, with 2019s probably rolling in around September/October (hopefully more XD60s--everyone [general public] wants to see more artics on the busiest routes), all of them pretty much behave/sound similar. All are quiet rides, whether you're up top or down below, including during these hot times when the A/C is constantly running. A vastly different environment than SMART's cheapo Gilligs where the HVAC blowing constantly is very noisy no matter where you are (engine/transmission noise same way). Ride quality, even on the original 2014/2015s is STILL bang-on, with just "muted" shudders/rattles, and so tight that you're gonna have to hit some major hole to get a jolt. The 2017/2018s have a bit less sway when a good operator puts the foot down around a curve/corner, but overall the Xcelsiors have a "Lincoln"-type ride versus the Gillig Yugo one. (ALL of SMART's 2016/2017/2018 Gilligs now prominently feature major rattling and suspension issues [especially rear-end bottoming-out], while DDOT's D40LFs from the 2004 and 2010 series and 2012 Gilligs have no suspension issues, as abused as they've been.)

The 2015 XDE40s do a good bit of rotation now unlike before, and are in a totally different world compared to SMART's Gillig hybrids. The XDEs have the exact same acceleration/performance as the XDs, whereas the Gilligs are slower than their diesel counterparts (some have been re-tuned, with a couple that do, finally, take off like a DDOT 2004 D40LF.) However, NONE of the XDE40s or the DDOT Gillig hybrids have the airplane "jet engine" wind-down wail during braking like SMART's hybrids. (EDIT: Did actually have one recently that was obviously ready to have some work done. Very out of place, very noisy every time operator put foot down. BUT, still took off like a shot and got cookin'.)

I think your 2014/2015s must have been twiddled with too much (as the MTA doesn't like buses to perform like they should) and they must not be maintaining them optimally overall. Ours of the same period take off -- without the same noise -- like the DD50s of the 2004 D40LFs, and would be ahead off the line against the 2010 D40LFs with ISL-7s, and be just a smidge behind those Detroit Diesels.

I don't believe you guys are seeing/experiencing the full potential of the Xcelsiors because of the limitations in NYC and the ones the MTA additionally imposes. Your operators surely can't be full flatting for very long between stops for the most part, and your "open road" areas where the bus can fully spin-out the transmission to a good steady 40/45 from a flat-out are few and far between. Fortunately I've been with some real good operators who exploited some areas where nobody wanted on or off, and put the pedal down from a red and didn't bring it up for air until we were running 50 (cars were trying to mess with us, but the B/Os changed lanes smoothly and avoided them) -- and let me tell ya, it's a glorious experience for the senses all around.

Glad DDOT doesn't believe in governors or messing with the transmissions.

Edited July 20, 2019 by DetSMART45

[Lawrence St]

Does anyone think the D60HF's will be reactivated and put back on the roster because of all these route artic conversions?

[Brillant93]

8 minutes ago, Lawrence St said:

Does anyone think the D60HF's will be reactivated and put back on the roster because of all these route artic conversions?

No, from this point on it’s clean diesel, electric hybrid, and electric buses. 

[King Transit]

16 minutes ago, Lawrence St said:

Does anyone think the D60HF's will be reactivated and put back on the roster because of all these route artic conversions?

Look here, I know those D60HFs are the best kings of MaBSTOA, but that's not the point. Remember the RTS outcry ? I do not want to hear another one for other models that are retiring. We have new buses, it's not going to be like the Orion Vs they don't expect to repetitively bring back(said by a transit youtuber). Those residents you do not know may or may not care about MTA(even fanners of transit), still protest to cause a bus shortage. Even "reactivating D60HFs" for artic conversion? It may be a smart idea, but that causes overpopulation. Also, where are we going to put the new buses ? Imagine🧐 !

[trainfan22]

1 hour ago, Lawrence St said:

Does anyone think the D60HF's will be reactivated and put back on the roster because of all these route artic conversions?

The D60s don't exist anymore, they have all been chopped up and turned into soda cans already.

[NBTA]

With KB losing their XD60s to GA and now presumedly WF, you do you guys think that KB would get some new Artics instead of the 12XX hand-me-downs from MCH?

[Brillant93]

35 minutes ago, NBTA said:

With KB losing their XD60s to GA and now presumedly WF, you do you guys think that KB would get some new Artics instead of the 12XX hand-me-downs from MCH?

They’re most likely going to get the lfsa from hale. 

[JeremiahC99]

1 hour ago, NBTA said:

With KB losing their XD60s to GA and now presumedly WF, you do you guys think that KB would get some new Artics instead of the 12XX hand-me-downs from MCH?

They could also end up getting LFS Buses from Tuskegee Airmen Depot as well once they get their XD60s from MTA Bus. I attached a spreadsheet below that shows the potential assignments of the fleet to make service:

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1_B8Hu1hRaZ4hjToejxvy-FDPlBGSxEn3k_sW1-Vfc64

Note that it may be somewhat inaccurate due to not taking into account buses lost in accidents, buses not ordered yet, etc.

Edited July 21, 2019 by JeremiahC99

[Around the Horn]

54 minutes ago, JeremiahC99 said:

They could also end up getting LFS Buses from Tuskegee Airmen Depot as well once they get their XD60s from MTA Bus. I attached a spreadsheet below that shows the potential assignments of the fleet to make service:

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1_B8Hu1hRaZ4hjToejxvy-FDPlBGSxEn3k_sW1-Vfc64

Note that it may be somewhat inaccurate due to not taking into account buses lost in accidents, buses not ordered yet, etc.

My only question with this is why are the 50 express buses for NYCB included and not the 251 buses for MTA Bus?

Also you're missing Yonkers in the Bronx depots section. Otherwise this is great.

Edited July 21, 2019 by Around the Horn

[JeremiahC99]

26 minutes ago, Around the Horn said:

My only question with this is why are the 50 express buses for NYCB included and not the 251 buses for MTA Bus?

Also you're missing Yonkers in the Bronx depots section. Otherwise this is great.

I only included the 50 buses for NYCB since I could already guess where some of them could go. Apparently this quote gave it away:

Quote

Additionally, the MTA is also in the process of procuring 50 new coach (express) buses that will be put into Staten Island express bus service in 2021.

For the other 257 buses, assignments for now can be quite a mystery, and we have to deal with around 475 MCIs. However, I do except all 257 of them to be at MTA Bus Baisley Park, College Point, and others.

Also, I did not know that I forgot the Yonkers Division for that one. I must’ve overlooked it before I submitted the link. It’s very tedious to do when you need to find places for nearly 5,777 buses to go. I think I didn’t account for some buses here. I’m going to make a few more edits on it as well as time progresses, if I have time since I have other priorities to deal with, and as a 19 year old college student, finding time is difficult, even now when I have a few months off.

[NBTA]

1 hour ago, JeremiahC99 said:

They could also end up getting LFS Buses from Tuskegee Airmen Depot as well once they get their XD60s from MTA Bus. I attached a spreadsheet below that shows the potential assignments of the fleet to make service:

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1_B8Hu1hRaZ4hjToejxvy-FDPlBGSxEn3k_sW1-Vfc64

Note that it may be somewhat inaccurate due to not taking into account buses lost in accidents, buses not ordered yet, etc.

Swap the Q52 and the Q53, missing the B44-SBS and possibly the local, but besides that, nice spreadsheet.

[BM5 via Woodhaven]

599 was on the Q53 a few moments ago.

[Calvin]

On express buses, for example, if a SIM1 to the Transit Center has all seats full with a few standees at the last few pickup stops in Manhattan, are they allow to stand on the bus or have to wait for the next one during the rush hour?

Edited July 21, 2019 by Calvin

[NBTA]

6 minutes ago, Calvin said:

On express buses, for example, if a SIM1 to the Transit Center has all seats full with a few standees at the last few pickup stops in Manhattan, are they allow to stand on the bus or have to wait for the next one during the rush hour?

They are allowed to stand, I remember i took an SIM26, jammed packed, and the driver allowed such standees to do what they are designed to do, stand. 

Edited July 21, 2019 by NBTA