SUBWAY - Random Thoughts Topic

[Lawrence St]

2 hours ago, Trainmaster5 said:

There was an instructor who actually lived in the area who agreed with your interpretation of the switch naming, Pearsall but, being the rookie of the bunch, let the older guys run the show. I, personally, never looked at the name stamped on the equipment. I liked him because we were around the same age and he'd tell me about his train rides into Brooklyn in his younger days while I'd counter with my forays into Harlem and the Bronx. He actually rode the  from Dyre to New Lots while I rode the  from Rockaway Avenue to East 180th St because we both had free or nickel bus and subway passes in our school days. Going back to those WPR  trains I can understand the frustration at East 180th St. When I had my first picked job on the   I made a trip from Utica to 241st St daily. Utica, not Flatbush, was the terminal back then. We always went to the terminal at 241st St. We'd clean out the train there and either lay it up at 239 yard or lay it up at Morris Park. With the later terminal swaps in Brooklyn it was decided to run the WPR  trains to Nereid and lay up from there. There ended up being too much congestion up there which delayed the  service so they decided to run some  trains up to Gun Hill middle and terminate them there. There was no established routine to which trains were affected so the dispatchers at East 180th and 241st worked it out on the fly. When the new signal system was installed up there the  line Supt. in Unionport tower could see the situation up there and call the shots himself if he so desired but usually left it up the local supervision. When things would fall apart in Brooklyn and every crew on the  and the  would come up late there were times when I would connect with a WPR bound train  or  leave together and I'd be at Dyre changing ends and charged up on the south motor and my buddies were still around 219th or 225th still headed n/b. Heck, when I was a rookie on the  line we'd sometimes be 5 behind on our intervals because of delays. That meant that on a 10 minute headway I'd be leaving Flatbush at the time I was supposed to be at Lenox-148 signing out and heading toward home. That's one reason why I shy away from threads where folks talk about de-interlining and running  more trains. It's a simple concept that we were taught in school car as conductors. To wit, as the rush hour winds down and trains are transitioning from a 4 to 7or8 minute headways ,absent a relief valve like Gun Hill middle, Westchester Square  or 111 St  to remove some trains early every place will suffer the problems you encountered. The longer the line ie. the  the  the worse the potential for delays is. Even a  or  terminating at Utica on the express track only needs one or two stragglers to delay service s/b and n/b. BTW we were taught this in school car because every conductor was potentially on the path to tower operator, ATD, T/D/,M/M/I, and Trainmaster. Enough of my history lesson. Back on track now. Carry on.

How did you layup trains at Morris Park if the two express tracks were removed during that time? Or am I thinking of something else?

 

EDIT: perhaps my memory is incorrect, as the Dyre Av line always keep modifying the amount of tracks it has and where they end.

Edited December 6, 2020 by Lawrence St

[Lex]

20 minutes ago, Lawrence St said:

How did you layup trains at Morris Park if the two express tracks were removed during that time? Or am I thinking of something else?

 

EDIT: perhaps my memory is incorrect, as the Dyre Av line always keep modifying the amount of tracks it has and where they end.

While it doesn't actually answer the question, I find it important to remember that Unionport Yard wasn't expanded until after 1990, so storage was much more of an issue.

[Trainmaster5]

2 hours ago, Lawrence St said:

How did you layup trains at Morris Park if the two express tracks were removed during that time? Or am I thinking of something else?

 

EDIT: perhaps my memory is incorrect, as the Dyre Av line always keep modifying the amount of tracks it has and where they end.

The Morris Park layup area was both " express " tracks from south of Morris Park to the south end of both platforms at Pelham Parkway. Back then both "express " tracks ended there and began again just north of Baychester and ended at the switches leading into Dyre Avenue itself.  2 layups on each track and 1 layup on each track north of the terminal at the Dyre end. I think there were 4 layups on each track at the Morris Park end. The s/b express track was connected down to Pelham Parkway when the NTT equipment was received and tested on that track.  Unionport yard's construction ended the Morris Park layup era. My recollection.  Carry on. 

Edited December 6, 2020 by Trainmaster5

[Lawrence St]

3 hours ago, Trainmaster5 said:

The Morris Park layup area was both " express " tracks from south of Morris Park to the south end of both platforms at Pelham Parkway. Back then both "express " tracks ended there and began again just north of Baychester and ended at the switches leading into Dyre Avenue itself.  2 layups on each track and 1 layup on each track north of the terminal at the Dyre end. I think there were 4 layups on each track at the Morris Park end. The s/b express track was connected down to Pelham Parkway when the NTT equipment was received and tested on that track.  Unionport yard's construction ended the Morris Park layup era. My recollection.  Carry on. 

Have you ever been in the yard north of Dyre Av where the trail tracks end? One of my friends told me the section between the end of Dyre Av to the layup tracks isn't signaled and that you can still see parts of the old express tracks near the bumper blocks.

Another thing he told me, before that building was built at East 180th St, the NYWB platform tracks used to extend all the way down to where the park is and that they would layup trains all down the line. 

Edited December 6, 2020 by Lawrence St

[Trainmaster5]

37 minutes ago, Lawrence St said:

Have you ever been in the yard north of Dyre Av where the trail tracks end? One of my friends told me the section between the end of Dyre Av to the layup tracks isn't signaled and that you can still see parts of the old express tracks near the bumper blocks.

Another thing he told me, before that building was built at East 180th St, the NYWB platform tracks used to extend all the way down to where the park is and that they would layup trains all down the line. 

There is no  " yard " north of Dyre Avenue just the two layup tracks with a trailer set between the tracks for the car cleaning crew. If you're speaking about the Unionport tower building down at East 180th  before the construction was completed we would occasionally layup a train at the NYWB platforms adjacent to the uptown platform in the present day station. The NYWB trackage was gradually cut back over the years.  It used to extend down to the old bus depot and down to the railroad tracks but we never laid up trains that far down there. The railroad connection had been severed long before I started working there.  That's my experience.  Carry on.

[mrsman]

On 12/5/2020 at 4:59 PM, Trainmaster5 said:

With the later terminal swaps in Brooklyn it was decided to run the WPR  trains to Nereid and lay up from there. There ended up being too much congestion up there which delayed the  service so they decided to run some  trains up to Gun Hill middle and terminate them there. There was no established routine to which trains were affected so the dispatchers at East 180th and 241st worked it out on the fly. When the new signal system was installed up there the  line Supt. in Unionport tower could see the situation up there and call the shots himself if he so desired but usually left it up the local supervision. When things would fall apart in Brooklyn and every crew on the  and the  would come up late there were times when I would connect with a WPR bound train  or  leave together and I'd be at Dyre changing ends and charged up on the south motor and my buddies were still around 219th or 225th still headed n/b. Heck, when I was a rookie on the  line we'd sometimes be 5 behind on our intervals because of delays. That meant that on a 10 minute headway I'd be leaving Flatbush at the time I was supposed to be at Lenox-148 signing out and heading toward home. That's one reason why I shy away from threads where folks talk about de-interlining and running  more trains. It's a simple concept that we were taught in school car as conductors. To wit, as the rush hour winds down and trains are transitioning from a 4 to 7or8 minute headways ,absent a relief valve like Gun Hill middle, Westchester Square  or 111 St  to remove some trains early every place will suffer the problems you encountered. The longer the line ie. the  the  the worse the potential for delays is. Even a  or  terminating at Utica on the express track only needs one or two stragglers to delay service s/b and n/b. BTW we were taught this in school car because every conductor was potentially on the path to tower operator, ATD, T/D/,M/M/I, and Trainmaster. Enough of my history lesson. Back on track now. Carry on.

These are very good points.  Pocket tracks to allow for short turning trains are necessary to keep trains on schedule, to account for the myriad events that could cause delays throughout the system.

There is a need for frequent service through the core at peak times to meet the demand, reduce congestion and waiting times.  If you schedule 30 TPH through the core that is a train every 2 minutes which seems to be the maximum throughput for typical stretches of track.  But scheduling that many trains does not leave room for error, so you have to provide the short turns so that as much service to the core can be provided, even when accounting for the delays.

 

[Calvin]

Four R160s were on the  today (All Siemens units except 1 during the AM rush as the  96 St/2 Av)     AM = 5, PM = 4

The  and   : Two Siemens trains but with 3 Alstom units courtesy of Jamaica Yard. Total of 5

Edited December 9, 2020 by Calvin

[VIP]

16 hours ago, Calvin said:

Four R160s were on the  today (All Siemens units except 1 during the AM rush as the  96 St/2 Av)     AM = 5, PM = 4

The  and   : Two Siemens trains but with 3 Alstom units courtesy of Jamaica Yard. Total of 5

I liked it better when car equipment kept the R160’s on the  the way they used to keep the R68/A’s on the  

[Bay Ridge Express]

Pretty random question: anyone know on which stations the Jamaica Line plays music during the holiday season?

[GojiMet86]

The NYC subway font getting the Cheddar treatment:

 

@MHV9218 @Union Tpke

 

[MHV9218]

41 minutes ago, GojiMet86 said:

The NYC subway font getting the Cheddar treatment:

@MHV9218 @Union Tpke

 

Glad they grabbed Paul Shaw for this, since they basically just put his book to a slideshow – with the same photos! Not sure I agree with 'it was a mess for 90 years' – no serious person thinks the 1988/1989 introduction of Helvetica was what organized the subway...everybody knows it was the sign system that Vignelli/Noorda implemented, not the single font. So a little weird they went that route. But interesting all the same and pretty good on its info!

[Calvin]

There are a couple of Siemens 160s from C.I that may be rotated or swapped for an Alstom to C.I Yard

9028-9032 w 9098-9102, 9038-9042 w 9088-9092: currently on the  

9053-9057 w 9093-9097, 9083-9087 w 9058-9062: currently on the  

The 9000s may be shuffled. 

[Q23 via 108]

 https://www.nycsubway.org/perl/show?25586

https://www.nycsubway.org/perl/show?25584

https://www.nycsubway.org/perl/show?25576

https://www.nycsubway.org/perl/show?25581

Came across this weird find on nycsubway.org where it shows the windscreens at the Court Sq (45th Road) station painted red. Does anyone know why, and if any other stations have been painted like this before. 

Edited December 10, 2020 by Q23 via 108

[MHV9218]

2 hours ago, Q23 via 108 said:

Came across this weird find on nycsubway.org where it shows the windscreens at the Court Sq (45th Road) station painted red. Does anyone know why, and if any other stations have been painted like this before. 

That's the primer they use on steel and metal – sometimes entrances and exits are that color while they're repainting. All those photos are from the same day, so probably got a new coat of paint not long after. You can see it on the roof of the covering too. Funny, it actually looks a lot better that the ugly tan when you look at it.

[Around the Horn]

I do not miss those windscreens at all...

The modern design with the white/green panels and steel mesh is so much more pleasing on the eye.

[Union Tpke]

2 minutes ago, Around the Horn said:

I do not miss those windscreens at all...

The modern design with the white/green panels and steel mesh is so much more pleasing on the eye.

They still have them at stops on the  that had their renovations pushed back.

[MHV9218]

I keep forgetting they rehabbed the / stops that had them. I guess it's just the and the very last will be Intervale, which was renovated after a fire and is the most modern of the 'old' stations.

[Q23 via 108]

They're still a good amount of them. Cypress Hills, 85 St, Woodhaven Blvd and other queens stations on the  still have them. The  line north of 52 street have them. Intervale Ave  yes. And 207 & 215 Sts on the . Like seeing those screens, one of the few remains of the old MTA. Its the windscreens, some old helvitca signs, and some M logos, nice little throwbacks.

Speaking of that. What was the first elevated line to get the modern station rehab. With the yellow lego strip and modern windscreen design.

Another Red Windscreen pic.

https://www.nycsubway.org/perl/show?102203

https://www.nycsubway.org/perl/show?102204

https://www.nycsubway.org/perl/show?102110

Edited December 11, 2020 by Q23 via 108
IRT Brooklyn Red Windscreen pics

[MHV9218]

1 hour ago, Q23 via 108 said:

They're still a good amount of them. Cypress Hills, 85 St, Woodhaven Blvd and other queens stations on the  still have them. The  line north of 52 street have them. Intervale Ave  yes. And 207 & 215 Sts on the . Like seeing those screens, one of the few remains of the old MTA. Its the windscreens, some old helvitca signs, and some M logos, nice little throwbacks.

Speaking of that. What was the first elevated line to get the modern station rehab. With the yellow lego strip and modern windscreen design.

I lost track of which stops they redid. I remember 111th got redone within the last couple years but not all of them. Can't remember which other Queens ones they got to. 225th has been a minute since it got touched up, ADA platforms but early-1980s Akzidenz-Grotesk enamel signs still (last sign on the  that has that, except for parts of 242nd). I always sleep on these rehabs – I know they're happening, and then I forget, and I get out at say Avenue N and I'm totally surprised to see the new look. 

And probably one of the stations that got fixed up before the station enhancements went systemwide. Court Square was 2011 or so. Trying to remember what there was before that. 

--

Other random thought. Down the Youtube railfan rabbit hole. I never saw this clip before...this has gotta be the worst overshoot I've seen. That's almost a car length out of the station! Dumped the brakes way too late.

 

Edited December 11, 2020 by MHV9218

[NewFlyer 230]

40 minutes ago, MHV9218 said:

I lost track of which stops they redid. I remember 111th got redone within the last couple years but not all of them. Can't remember which other Queens ones they got to. 225th has been a minute since it got touched up, ADA platforms but early-1980s Akzidenz-Grotesk enamel signs still (last sign on the  that has that, except for parts of 242nd). I always sleep on these rehabs – I know they're happening, and then I forget, and I get out at say Avenue N and I'm totally surprised to see the new look. 

And probably one of the stations that got fixed up before the station enhancements went systemwide. Court Square was 2011 or so. Trying to remember what there was before that. 

--

Other random thought. Down the Youtube railfan rabbit hole. I never saw this clip before...this has gotta be the worst overshoot I've seen. That's almost a car length out of the station! Dumped the brakes way too late.

 

104th, 111th and 121th got rehabbed on the  about two years ago. 
 

I remember seeing that video! I heard that the R179s would overshoot stations quite a bit because of the bad brakes. 

[Calvin]

On the R46s, units between 6208-6258 are even numbers only while SIR R44s are between 436-464 (or 466, could be wrong at this). I wonder, was there a purpose for the even AA sets or that they experimented another way rather than the usual 4-cars involving one cab left to right?

Edited December 12, 2020 by Calvin

[darkstar8983]

7 minutes ago, Calvin said:

On the R46s, units between 6208-6258 are even numbers only while SIR R44s are between 436-464 (or 466, could be wrong at this). I wonder, was there a purpose for the even AA sets or that they experimented another way rather than the usual 4-cars involving one cab left to right?

Maybe it was to allow the use of 450’ six car trains (similar to how the  ran six-car trains prior to 2001)

[MrRF]

Why are there so many R160s back on the N/W line? Is this a permanent thing?

[Lawrence St]

@Trainmaster5 Perhaps you can explain something to me:

Whenever the is out on Lenox because of a G.O, they send the to 137th St, but when the is out on Lenox, they have it end at 96th St instead of 137th St like they used to. Any ideas why?

[Lex]

5 minutes ago, Lawrence St said:

@Trainmaster5 Perhaps you can explain something to me:

Whenever the is out on Lenox because of a G.O, they send the to 137th St, but when the is out on Lenox, they have it end at 96th St instead of 137th St like they used to. Any ideas why?

Isn't the former largely contingent upon Lenox Terminal's closure? After all, they wouldn't want to have terminating  trains utterly wreck throughput, something that's of no concern when the  is split between 96th Street and one of the two stations directly under 149th Street.