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 My priority would be toward people who lost their transit options like the East Side and the Bronx or those who never had the option (after being promised ) like Archer Avenue, Utica Avenue, Throgs Neck,  Bayside, or the Borough of Richmond. Those folks I haven't mentioned are welcome to take a spot at the very end of the line. Carry on.

That's all well and good in theory, however in order to deal with all these additional passengers and trains entering the CBD, you would also need new Manhattan trunk lines, like 2nd Avenue.

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That's all well and good in theory, however in order to deal with all these additional passengers and trains entering the CBD, you would also need new Manhattan trunk lines, like 2nd Avenue.

I'm giving them a Second Avenue trunk line but it's starting in the Bronx. In other words I'm trying to recreate a part of what they've lost.since 1955. The Lexington Avenue lines weren't hit with overcrowding until the demise of the Third Avenue El which came from the Bronx.

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True, demolishing the Third Avenue El without a replacement was one of the biggest mistakes the TA ever made.  But again, it boils down to them pursuing a real-estate agenda when they should be focusing on actual transit issues.

 

Although even if the El in Manhattan had lasted longer (say into the late '70s or early '80s), I'm skeptical as to how they would have resolved the equipment issues.  The Composites were retired in 1950 and I doubt the MUDCs were in better shape at the time.  The Low-Vs would still have been too heavy for the el below 149th Street.

And even if the TA had ordered the R39s, I imagine they would've had to be particularly lightweight to run on 3rd, such as having aluminum carbodies and space-age material trucks or something..   

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Elevated lines in Manhattan were doomed long before Third Avenue finally came down in '55. When the BoT decided to shut down the "redundant" elevated lines after unification, the Second Avenue line was chosen as a prime candidate, despite being the younger of the east side lines. Retaining the older Third Avenue line was supposed to mean that a subway replacement for the demolished line on Second Ave would be forth-coming. Also, it would've allowed construction of said subway without that pesky underpinning, much like how the Sixth Avenue subway was built as a replacement for the eponymous el. Of course, we all know the end result there. However, if the Second Avenue line was kept over Third Avenue, it would've likely been easier to upgrade it to handle the heavier subway cars. Third Avenue would've probably required a complete rebuild in sections to bring it up to the standards of the day.

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Elevated lines in Manhattan were doomed long before Third Avenue finally came down in '55. When the BoT decided to shut down the "redundant" elevated lines after unification, the Second Avenue line was chosen as a prime candidate, despite being the younger of the east side lines. Retaining the older Third Avenue line was supposed to mean that a subway replacement for the demolished line on Second Ave would be forth-coming. Also, it would've allowed construction of said subway without that pesky underpinning, much like how the Sixth Avenue subway was built as a replacement for the eponymous el. Of course, we all know the end result there. However, if the Second Avenue line was kept over Third Avenue, it would've likely been easier to upgrade it to handle the heavier subway cars. Third Avenue would've probably required a complete rebuild in sections to bring it up to the standards of the day.

 

Honestly, it would've been a lot easier if the Metropolitan Railway Co. had simply built the el down First Avenue instead (this of course was in the times before Queensborough Bridge was built, so it would've made sense).

 

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True, demolishing the Third Avenue El without a replacement was one of the biggest mistakes the TA ever made.  But again, it boils down to them pursuing a real-estate agenda when they should be focusing on actual transit issues.

 

Although even if the El in Manhattan had lasted longer (say into the late '70s or early '80s), I'm skeptical as to how they would have resolved the equipment issues.  The Composites were retired in 1950 and I doubt the MUDCs were in better shape at the time.  The Low-Vs would still have been too heavy for the el below 149th Street.

And even if the TA had ordered the R39s, I imagine they would've had to be particularly lightweight to run on 3rd, such as having aluminum carbodies and space-age material trucks or something..   

 

The Market-Frankford El in Philly was rebuilt completely from 1988 to 2009. It wouldn't have been outside the realm of possibility.

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The Market-Frankford El in Philly was rebuilt completely from 1988 to 2009. It wouldn't have been outside the realm of possibility.

And in my opinion, they did it well, with mosaic art at intersections...

 

IIRC, the new MFL cars are the same weight or slightly heavier than the R142...

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And in my opinion, they did it well, with mosaic art at intersections...

 

IIRC, the new MFL cars are the same weight or slightly heavier than the R142...

Could they have re-strengthen the EL right? Part's of the Broadway El was built in 1885 how different was that originally from the 2nd and 3rd ave elevated? IMO they doomed the 3rd when cut the South Ferry branch all down hill from there along with 179th yard. Cut capacity majorly. Here's a flowchart from 54 right before the 3rd came down.

U8VsjPv.jpg

Edited by RailRunRob
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Could they have re-strengthen the EL right? Part's of the Broadway El was built in 1885 how different was that originally from the 2nd and 3rd ave elevated? IMO they doomed the 3rd when cut the South Ferry branch all down hill from there along with 179th yard. Cut capacity majorly. Here's a flowchart from 54 right before the 3rd came down.

I have no idea. I assume that the girders were either strengthened or completely replaced around the time of the Dual contracts, but I'm not sure which they actually did.

Edited by Around the Horn
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There were switching problems at Whitehall Street, then an incident (12-9?) at Lex/59. It's completely possible that a (W) that was unable to terminate at Whitehall during the switch issue went into Brooklyn, then when it turned back it was unable to go up Broadway because of the other incident, so up the north side of the bridge and 6th Avenue it went.

 

Keep in mind, you can't turn trains at 57th Street/7 Avenue anymore with 2nd Avenue service up and running, and you already had (N) trains going up 2nd Avenue and whatever (R) trains that stayed on Broadway going via 63rd Street to Queens (some went via Bridge/6 Av/53 St)...

 

Since this was happening during the height of the PM rush, I'm willing to bet that (W) went up CPW since QBL doesn't have the capacity and 53rd and 63rd were both maxed out. CPW is the only reasonable place since there's *some* capacity to spare heading up that way at that hour...

Yes, because in theory, the (W) in that scenario could run to 168th and terminate with the (C) there, then return to Coney Island via the (B) or (D).

 

It's a shame they did not extend the 63rd Street tunnel to Broadway/CPW because they could then have that to send the (E) via 8th Avenue or any of the 8th Avenue lines to 96th/2nd in a emergency for example.

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I just found this in the Capital Dashboard. Something I have wondered is how the Chambers Street station will become ADA Accessible. I hope that they clean that station up. It is one of my favorites.

 

New York City Transit

 
Project: T7041317
Description: ADA Systemwide Study
Category: Passenger Stations
Element: Passenger Stations
This project will study ADA feasibility and layouts at non-accessible stations systemwide. Some schedule dates are not available, due to project being under development.
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I just found this in the Capital Dashboard. Something I have wondered is how the Chambers Street station will become ADA Accessible. I hope that they clean that station up. It is one of my favorites.

 

New York City Transit

 

Project: T7041317

Description: ADA Systemwide Study

Category: Passenger Stations

Element: Passenger Stations

This project will study ADA feasibility and layouts at non-accessible stations systemwide. Some schedule dates are not available, due to project being under development.

In my opinion, the only way Chambers Street can ever go back to the state it was in when it opened is to close the entire station.

Edited by BayParkwayW
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Hi,

 

when did the MTA officially become the MTA?

In 1968, the city-operated New York City Transit Authority was placed into the then-recently formed Metropolitan Commuter Transportation Authority (MCTA), which had the LIRR in it, and then it was recreated as the MTA. Metro-North came into the fold as well as MTA Bus.

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CI Yard is going nuts with signage. Weekend (N) program now says

CONEY ISLAND

BWAY LCL/4 AV EXP

VIA SEA BEACH

Speaking of interesting updates, guess what other announcement is messed up now?

 

 

 

 

 

 

59th Street. Looks like the update made the (4)(5)(6) announcements play at where it originally played at (or in other words, a bit later than now).

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