realizm Posted June 11, 2014 Share #3976 Posted June 11, 2014 (edited) CBTC is a type of signal system, which enforces safe train separation and safe interlocking operation, much like the old wayside signals we're all used to seeing. ATS is an overlay on top of a signal system that automatically tracks trains and routes them through interlockings. I agree with this post. The catch is though, when mishaps happen with the CBTC system the whole line shuts down. Is there anything that can be done in regards to this or can we say the T/Ds are screwed when these sort of things happen? What would be the protocol for when the line shuts down? Implementing of block signaling mode if there is such a function? I have another question: The R143's have almost the worst MDBFs in the entire NYC Transit fleet but this is due to CBTC failures not the cars. I fail to understand why the MTA counts car reliability like this? It makes no sense to me. I mean the cars themselves seem to run well in itself. Thanks in advance. Edited June 11, 2014 by realizm 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
R188 7857 Posted June 12, 2014 Share #3977 Posted June 12, 2014 It looks like 7887? Can't quite tell That set was tested, but I am not quite sure whether it hit service or not. There are only two more to go into service: R188 7877-7887 and R188 7888-7898 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fresh Pond Posted June 12, 2014 Share #3978 Posted June 12, 2014 I agree with this post. The catch is though, when mishaps happen with the CBTC system the whole line shuts down. Is there anything that can be done in regards to this or can we say the T/Ds are screwed when these sort of things happen? What would be the protocol for when the line shuts down? Implementing of block signaling mode if there is such a function? I have another question: The R143's have almost the worst MDBFs in the entire NYC Transit fleet but this is due to CBTC failures not the cars. I fail to understand why the MTA counts car reliability like this? It makes no sense to me. I mean the cars themselves seem to run well in itself. Thanks in advance. Well with the and CBTC craps out, they drive it manually and follow the regular signals... ...now the problem is that the signals are spaced so far apart (north of Bway Jct anyway), the absolute block rule takes effect; and since one signal block has multiple stations in between it, there's gonna be MAJOR delays along the line. With the , they learned from that mistake on the and all the signals are generally staying put (or moved slightly). It'll be easier to keep service when CBTC craps out 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
4P3607 Posted June 12, 2014 Share #3979 Posted June 12, 2014 7887 is in service as I've seen it a few weeks ago. 7888-7898 I still haven't seen. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AndrewJC Posted June 12, 2014 Share #3980 Posted June 12, 2014 I agree with this post. The catch is though, when mishaps happen with the CBTC system the whole line shuts down. Is there anything that can be done in regards to this or can we say the T/Ds are screwed when these sort of things happen? What would be the protocol for when the line shuts down? Implementing of block signaling mode if there is such a function? Any sort of signal failure will cause major disruptions. Even with CBTC, they very rarely take out the whole line (and, on the flip side, if you've never encountered an AC power failure that knocks out all of the wayside signals along a stretch of track, consider yourself fortunate). I'm sure there are procedures for maintaining some semblance of operation when the signals are out, but it will inevitably be seriously degraded from regular rush hour levels of service. Except at interlockings and south of Broadway Junction, there are no more wayside signals on the Canarsie line, so there are no (or, more accurately, few) wayside signals to fall back on. Signal systems are quite pricey - it's very hard to justify spending money on two redundant signal systems on the same line. Signal replacement projects are basically wayside or CBTC, but not both - and CBTC is higher-capacity, safer, and faster than wayside, and I believe the life-cycle cost is lower. That said, the Canarsie CBTC system does seem to be somewhat lacking in reliability - I hope Siemens and Thales do better in future jobs. I have another question: The R143's have almost the worst MDBFs in the entire NYC Transit fleet but this is due to CBTC failures not the cars. I fail to understand why the MTA counts car reliability like this? It makes no sense to me. I mean the cars themselves seem to run well in itself. Subway cars have lots of systems and components on board that have the potential to fail. Just because a car seems to run well doesn't mean that those systems and components never fail. CBTC-equipped cars do have extra components that other cars don't have, so I do agree somewhat that it's a bit unfair to compare MDBF on cars with CBTC to MDBF on cars without CBTC - an R143 with failed CBTC is no worse off than any non-CBTC car. As the CBTC program progresses, I wonder if the MDBF tables will be split between CBTC cars and non-CBTC cars. Well with the and CBTC craps out, they drive it manually and follow the regular signals... ...now the problem is that the signals are spaced so far apart (north of Bway Jct anyway), the absolute block rule takes effect; and since one signal block has multiple stations in between it, there's gonna be MAJOR delays along the line. With the , they learned from that mistake on the and all the signals are generally staying put (or moved slightly). It'll be easier to keep service when CBTC craps out The signals are most certainly not staying put! The entire point of a signal modernization project is to replace the old signal system with something new, whether wayside or CBTC. Flushing will have more (brand new) wayside signals than Canarsie, but I believe they're only going on the two-track section of the line (and at interlockings), and, like on the southern end of the Canarsie line, they still won't support regular rush hour headways. Given the cost involved, I don't see how a high-capacity wayside system on top of a high-capacity CBTC system could possibly be justified. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
realizm Posted June 12, 2014 Share #3981 Posted June 12, 2014 Many thanks Andrew and Fresh Pond for the added knowledge. +1. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
XcelsiorBoii4888 Posted June 15, 2014 Share #3982 Posted June 15, 2014 7877-7887 is at Coney Island yard. I saw the full 11-car set right next to the wash when I was on the train. Anyone know where 7888-7898 is? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Union Tpke Posted June 15, 2014 Share #3983 Posted June 15, 2014 7877-7887 is at Coney Island yard. I saw the full 11-car set right next to the wash when I was on the train. Anyone know where 7888-7898 is? Realizm just caught it testing on the sea beach. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
realizm Posted June 15, 2014 Share #3984 Posted June 15, 2014 (edited) Edited June 15, 2014 by realizm 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NYSubwayBuff Posted June 15, 2014 Share #3985 Posted June 15, 2014 Niice Sent from my SPH-L710 using Tapatalk 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
XcelsiorBoii4888 Posted June 15, 2014 Share #3986 Posted June 15, 2014 Great shots! Yeah that makes sense 7877-7887 was on the Sea Beach and then went to Coney Island. What about the set 7888-7898? Did it arrive yet? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NYSubwayBuff Posted June 16, 2014 Share #3987 Posted June 16, 2014 Hey what other lines besides sea beach do they test the R188's on Sent from my SPH-L710 using Tapatalk 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trainfan22 Posted June 16, 2014 Share #3988 Posted June 16, 2014 Hey what other lines besides sea beach do they test the R188's onSent from my SPH-L710 using TapatalkThe Rockaway line between Broad Channel and Howard Beach. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lance Posted June 16, 2014 Share #3989 Posted June 16, 2014 And the Dyre Avenue middle tracks. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
realizm Posted June 16, 2014 Share #3990 Posted June 16, 2014 So not the Culver Viaduct anymore? I mean I know there's been plenty of Brooklyn F weekend GO's 's lately where the express tracks must be used but.. There is CBTC retrofitted equipment there for testing... 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
R62AR33 Posted June 17, 2014 Share #3991 Posted June 17, 2014 (edited) Seems like Westchester Yard are offically REMOVING their Led lights from their R62As , i was on set 2351-2355 from the and while at 103st and 116st I saw 2 sets of R62As couldnt get their car numbers but .they did not have Led Lights anymore at all ..... noticed they were Westchester sets because their yard stickers were still purple... Edited June 17, 2014 by R62AR33 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eric B Posted June 17, 2014 Share #3992 Posted June 17, 2014 I was just thinking; it would be nice if they were replacing the red diamonds with another color (that on the mainline doesn't evoke 7th Avenue). Perhaps even amber, or white, or cyan. Green as the local made it seemed like these were planned for Lexington all along. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GojiMet86 Posted June 17, 2014 Share #3993 Posted June 17, 2014 The set that contains #7897 was testing last night. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MHV9218 Posted June 17, 2014 Share #3994 Posted June 17, 2014 Seems like Westchester Yard are offically REMOVING their Led lights from their R62As , i was on set 2351-2355 from the and while at 103st and 116st I saw 2 sets of R62As couldnt get their car numbers but .they did not have Led Lights anymore at all ..... noticed they were Westchester sets because their yard stickers were still purple... You keep saying this...I still find this hard to believe. It was probably the same few cars that have been missing LEDs for a while. It makes no sense that the MTA would send the diamond-circle LED cars to the only remain diamond-circle line and not use them. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MTA Dude Posted June 17, 2014 Share #3995 Posted June 17, 2014 You keep saying this...I still find this hard to believe. It was probably the same few cars that have been missing LEDs for a while. It makes no sense that the MTA would send the diamond-circle LED cars to the only remain diamond-circle line and not use them. Actually, I saw a couple R62A 5-car set trains that had missing LED Lights on them. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
R62AR33 Posted June 18, 2014 Share #3996 Posted June 18, 2014 (edited) You keep saying this...I still find this hard to believe. It was probably the same few cars that have been missing LEDs for a while. It makes no sense that the MTA would send the diamond-circle LED cars to the only remain diamond-circle line and not use them. Nope i saw 2 full 10 car sets of R62As on the without LED lights on them and they were Westchester Sets because of the purple stickers.... and the easist reason on why to remove them is because Westchester yards crew don't like using them themselves , there are times where a is express and theyll leave the leds local, the whole trip .. and On top of that riders know what cars are local or express. We have to remember the reason those lights got installed in the first place is because flushing riders have trouble knowing the difference between a local or express train , riders do know the difference unless their a tourist and they can listen to announcements like everyone else if needed, Edited June 18, 2014 by R62AR33 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MHV9218 Posted June 18, 2014 Share #3997 Posted June 18, 2014 On top of that riders know what cars are local or express. We have to remember the reason those lights got installed in the first place is because flushing riders have trouble knowing the difference between a local or express train , riders do know the difference unless their a tourist and they can listen to announcements like everyone else if needed, Why do riders know what's local and what's express any more than riders? I had an R62A the other day where one car showed 3 Av-138, one showed Parkchester, and one showed Pelham Bay Park. There's no way to 'know' since all the signs are messed up. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
T J Trainman Posted June 18, 2014 Share #3998 Posted June 18, 2014 7221-7230 in service since Monday, 7231-7240 out of service 7237 having probs. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guira1283 Posted June 18, 2014 Share #3999 Posted June 18, 2014 7221-7230 in service since Monday, 7231-7240 out of service 7237 having probs. 7231-7240 is running as we speak saw it rolling down to flushing Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Union Tpke Posted June 18, 2014 Share #4000 Posted June 18, 2014 7231-7240 is running as we speak saw it rolling down to flushing Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk nice! You guys gotta get your R62A train pics and vids while you can, same for R142As on the 6! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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