SUBWAY - Random Thoughts Topic

[B35 via Church]

2 hours ago, LaGuardia Link N Tra said:

While that is a common sense option, unfortunately the Port Authority didn’t see it that way. I forgot which study I looked at since it was months ago, but there was a feasibility study regarding the boondoggle train and how it holds up against other options to get to LGA. You already know this, It was skewed to make the AirTrain the most favorable option (which is BS).

Conflict of interest, indeed.

1 hour ago, NewFlyer 230 said:

Does anyone else think that Court Square station needs to be connected via the north end of the (7) platform and the middle of the and platform. I always found it quite ridiculous how you need to walk down that long mezzanine, pass the train’s mezzanine just to connect to the Flushing and or Queens Blvd lines. 

Having a train entrance at 44th Dr and a connection to the and would save so much time and I think it would be worth constructing. It would definitely be much easier to build than a connection between the Queensboro Plaza and Queens Plaza stations. 

IDK how many 's alone I've missed after coming off the ..... To opine on your question, I would still say yeah.... There are a bunch of people doing that trek b/w the / and the

Whenever I take the , it's either from Church av, 21st st, or Court Sq. itself.... Train's almost always sitting right there at Church, empty - but when I need it on the Queens end, I'm almost always eating (train) dust.... Then again, dam things leave crushloaded on the Queens end, so I could perhaps look at it as a blessing in disguise..... In any case, while petty, this is actually a reason I gun for the [B32 → B46] over the [ to the B46 (or the B35, depending on mood)]....

Edited July 7, 2020 by B35 via Church

[Union Tpke]

4 hours ago, NewFlyer 230 said:

Does anyone else think that Court Square station needs to be connected via the north end of the (7) platform and the middle of the and platform. I always found it quite ridiculous how you need to walk down that long mezzanine, pass the train’s mezzanine just to connect to the Flushing and or Queens Blvd lines. 

Having a train entrance at 44th Dr and a connection to the and would save so much time and I think it would be worth constructing. It would definitely be much easier to build than a connection between the Queensboro Plaza and Queens Plaza stations. 

I posted about this some time back. There is a big missed opportunity with a new development going up right there.

Edited July 8, 2020 by Union Tpke

[F O O L]

Does anyone know what the trunk lines of manhattan are from highest ridership to lowest ridership?

[trainfan22]

1 hour ago, F O O L said:

Does anyone know what the trunk lines of manhattan are from highest ridership to lowest ridership?

Highest- Lex

 

Lowest... maybe the Nassau street line?

[mrsman]

19 hours ago, T to Dyre Avenue said:

Agreed; you can’t have the  and two SAS services or the  on the Willy B at the same time. A while ago, I suggested an idea in the Proposals thread that would preserve the  transfer to the  at Fulton. I quoted it further down in this post.

But you don’t have to reroute all Williamsburg Bridge trains to 2nd Avenue. I suggested this idea as a long-term possibility: 

So it would be only the  that turns uptown from Essex, as the current  does. The J and Z would continue downtown to Nassau St ad now, joined by the , which would run strictly north-south from East Harlem to Broad St (possibly beyond, but I haven’t thought that far out yet, lol). The  and  would be the only services on 2nd Avenue proper from Houston to 63rd (possibly shifting onto 3rd Avenue in the East 40s and 50s to facilitate transfers to the Queens-bound tunnel services there). You wouldn’t be able to turn J, T and Z services at Broad at the same time, so might I suggest turning the Z at Chambers when it’s in operation. This preserves the connection with the A, C, 2, 3, 4 and 5 at Fulton. I’m also going to suggest scrapping skip-stop service and running the J peak express between Broadway Junction and Marcy on weekdays, while running the Z local alongside the M.

Though I do realize that the wye that would be needed to allow for this would be quite complex and very expensive to build. And J, M, T and Z trains would either be limited to 9-car trains or the existing stations on the  Jamaica and Myrtle els and the Nassau subway stations would need their platforms to be lengthened to allow 10-car trains.

Of course, this assumes that we ever do get to SAS phases 3 and 4. We’ll be lucky if we get Phase 2 built.

Can something like you suggest be done somewhat more simply without the wye?

(M): Either starting in Queens with a 63-2 Ave link or starting at the 55th st station on the SAS mainline, this train goes down SAS and then links over to the Williamsburg Bridge.  I think part of the connection between the Williamsburg Bridge and the 6th Ave line can be repurposed for this connection.

 From Bronx or 125th/Broadway down 2 Ave through Grand Street and then to Chambers* and then continuing down the Nassau line into Brooklyn.  While this means that  does not have access to Canal, it does provide an easy cross-platform transfer to  and then all of the transfers that can be found at Chambers and Fulton. 

 : From the Williamsburg Bridge, the path will not change, other then some track changes north of Chambers so that  and  merge tracks at that point and then continue south, with  terminating at Broad.

 :  From the Williamsburg Bridge, the path will not change, other then some track changes north of Chambers so that  terminates at Chambers with as little interference with the  as possible.  So maybe the  will run on the inner tracks of Centre while the  and  run on the outer tracks.  The  will terminate at Chambers.

As far as colors go, I prefer J and Z staying brown to denote Centre/Nassau line trains that do not go up 2 Ave.

There arrangement of the trains in such a manner will necessitate some changes in their operation in Brooklyn, as J and Z are no longer equivalent trains in Manhattan.  I will follow your suggestion regarding running the J peak express between Broadway Junction and Marcy on weekdays, while running the Z local alongside the M.

* I believe there must be a feasible way of routing trains from Chambers to Grand without too much new digging.  The old Nassau loop somehow went from Chambers to the Manhattan Bridge, I believe following Centre and Canal.  If part of this pathway is still available, trains could take it and then head north toward Grand street station instead of turning south toward the bridge.  If that's not possible, then a new tunnel should be dug deep bore to make the connection, perhaps using Park Row for part of the route.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[MHV9218]

Renovated stations are finally having their cheap tin sheet metal signs replaced (at least at the entrances/exteriors) with porcelain enamel signs. These signs have to be fabricated by an outside contractor (TA sign shop cannot bake enamel), so they took a little while. They're much better looking and more durable, so good they ordered these. Many still have the tag on them from the IC, funnily enough.

[Union Tpke]

18 hours ago, Union Tpke said:

I posted about this some time back. There is a big missed opportunity with a new development going up right there.

Another thing about this transfer is that it would reduce overcrowding at Jackson Heights/Roosevelt Avenue.

[NewFlyer 230]

38 minutes ago, Union Tpke said:

Another thing about this transfer is that it would reduce overcrowding at Jackson Heights/Roosevelt Avenue.

It definitely would because during the AM rush the Queens Blvd line platforms are like sardine cans. What deters a lot of folks including myself from making that transfer at Court Square is that long walk. I feel most people that get off the  and  are not going to the  but the  and the same can be said for folks getting off the  . They aren’t transferring in droves for the  and  but the  train. 

The subway system definitely has its fair share of annoying transfer like at Times Square between the  and  and the rest of the trains that serve Times Square, the connection at 14th street between the  and the  and the  to the 6 Ave lines at 5th Ave/Bryant Park. 

[trainfan22]

Forgot to post this yesterday, there was an MTA police SUV parked at Rockaway Parkway station. First time I seen them guarding NYCT property, they usually only guard the two MTA commuter railroads.

 

Rockaway Parkway is the easiest station to fare beat, just simply walk into the terminal where the buses enter. I wonder why MTA police was guarding that station as I don't think NYPD even bothers with farebeaters anymore.

[T to Dyre Avenue]

12 hours ago, mrsman said:

Can something like you suggest be done somewhat more simply without the wye?

(M): Either starting in Queens with a 63-2 Ave link or starting at the 55th st station on the SAS mainline, this train goes down SAS and then links over to the Williamsburg Bridge.  I think part of the connection between the Williamsburg Bridge and the 6th Ave line can be repurposed for this connection.

 From Bronx or 125th/Broadway down 2 Ave through Grand Street and then to Chambers* and then continuing down the Nassau line into Brooklyn.  While this means that  does not have access to Canal, it does provide an easy cross-platform transfer to  and then all of the transfers that can be found at Chambers and Fulton. 

 : From the Williamsburg Bridge, the path will not change, other then some track changes north of Chambers so that  and  merge tracks at that point and then continue south, with  terminating at Broad.

 :  From the Williamsburg Bridge, the path will not change, other then some track changes north of Chambers so that  terminates at Chambers with as little interference with the  as possible.  So maybe the  will run on the inner tracks of Centre while the  and  run on the outer tracks.  The  will terminate at Chambers.

As far as colors go, I prefer J and Z staying brown to denote Centre/Nassau line trains that do not go up 2 Ave.

There arrangement of the trains in such a manner will necessitate some changes in their operation in Brooklyn, as J and Z are no longer equivalent trains in Manhattan.  I will follow your suggestion regarding running the J peak express between Broadway Junction and Marcy on weekdays, while running the Z local alongside the M.

* I believe there must be a feasible way of routing trains from Chambers to Grand without too much new digging.  The old Nassau loop somehow went from Chambers to the Manhattan Bridge, I believe following Centre and Canal.  If part of this pathway is still available, trains could take it and then head north toward Grand street station instead of turning south toward the bridge.  If that's not possible, then a new tunnel should be dug deep bore to make the connection, perhaps using Park Row for part of the route.

Sure, if there’s a way to do it without the wye and connect directly with the  at Grand, then I’m all in favor of it. I do believe at least part of that pathway is still there, so maybe it would be possible for the  to break off from the  starting at the old Nassau loop tracks, with the  joining the  somewhere between Grand and Houston coming off a reconfigured Chrystie connection. The  would start in Queens and have a 63rd-2nd Avenue link. This would be in tandem with a reconfigured QBL service pattern. The  and a reinstated  via 53rd would be the locals and the  and  via 63rd would be the expresses. The  and  would terminate at 71st/Continental, the  would terminate at Jamaica Center (or Laurelton), while the  would remain unchanged. There would be no merging on the QBL proper except for the  and  in Briarwood.

Now, I haven’t got the foggiest idea how far the  would have to go to clear the , but if it’s possible, then I’m for it. In the past, this is what I wanted, but got a lot of pushback over it. In the past, the general consensus here and on other NYC Transit-related websites was in favor of the Water St alignment, as favored by the MTA.

 

Edited July 9, 2020 by T to Dyre Avenue

[4 via Mosholu]

On 7/6/2020 at 10:41 PM, Around the Horn said:

I've got a question for the rollsign experts:

Are the route rolls for the side signs on the R42s and the R68/As the same size and if so are they potentially interchangeable? Obviously the destination rolls aren't and that's something you can kind of see with the naked eye, but the route rolls look like they're very close to each other in size if not exactly the same.

They are completely different from each other; in fact, the 42 route signs can be interchanged with the 46 route signs since they have an horizontal rollsign setup. The 68 as well as its Kawasaki variant can only be interchanged between each other, not between the 42 and the 68 as they use a vertical rollsign setup.

[Maxwell179]

5 hours ago, trainfan22 said:

Forgot to post this yesterday, there was an MTA police SUV parked at Rockaway Parkway station. First time I seen them guarding NYCT property, they usually only guard the two MTA commuter railroads.

 

Rockaway Parkway is the easiest station to fare beat, just simply walk into the terminal where the buses enter. I wonder why MTA police was guarding that station as I don't think NYPD even bothers with farebeaters anymore.

I remember a couple months ago they had MTA employees standing by the gates , making sure no one went through the temporary gate while they were completing renovations

[MHV9218]

On 7/6/2020 at 10:41 PM, Around the Horn said:

I've got a question for the rollsign experts:

Are the route rolls for the side signs on the R42s and the R68/As the same size and if so are they potentially interchangeable? Obviously the destination rolls aren't and that's something you can kind of see with the naked eye, but the route rolls look like they're very close to each other in size if not exactly the same.

 

14 hours ago, 4 via Mosholu said:

They are completely different from each other; in fact, the 42 route signs can be interchanged with the 46 route signs since they have an horizontal rollsign setup. The 68 as well as its Kawasaki variant can only be interchanged between each other, not between the 42 and the 68 as they use a vertical rollsign setup.

I think the question is for the side signs only. My gut answer is no, because there have been specific orders printed for the 40/42 class and 68/68A class for those route bullets, and there is no reference on those orders to the other car classes. The 68/68A signs may be a little larger, if I were to guess. As you said, the destinations are a much different size: 27" wide for the R40/42 rolls (around the same as the route rolls on the R10-R17s, for those keeping score), and 36" for the R68/68A rolls.

Just for trivia, the 68 originals are some weird, weird signs. PVC material, unlike any other rollsigns made for the MTA, and with very oddly-spaced Akzidenz-Grotesk lettering. The 68A originals are mylar, but with similarly weird spacing (Akzidenz bullets, Helvetica destinations). 

[Around the Horn]

Yes I was referring to the route roll on the side signs. Thank you for the in depth answer @MHV9218

[Calvin]

8773-8777 has the exterior Cuomo wrap removed. 

[Future ENY OP]

40 minutes ago, Calvin said:

8773-8777 has the exterior Cuomo wrap removed. 

What's the reason being that they are taking the wrap off? 

Could part of this be that those cars are re-assigned to the ???

[Future ENY OP]

On 7/8/2020 at 8:26 PM, trainfan22 said:

Forgot to post this yesterday, there was an MTA police SUV parked at Rockaway Parkway station. First time I seen them guarding NYCT property, they usually only guard the two MTA commuter railroads.

 

Rockaway Parkway is the easiest station to fare beat, just simply walk into the terminal where the buses enter. I wonder why MTA police was guarding that station as I don't think NYPD even bothers with farebeaters anymore.

police in NYPD Transit Division 33 territory.  Very interesting.  Usually you catch MTA police at GCT, PENN and JAMAICA. 

There goes part of the 500 deployed officers to the NYCT property.

[Calvin]

29 minutes ago, Future ENY OP said:

What's the reason being that they are taking the wrap off? 

Could part of this be that those cars are re-assigned to the ???

Not reassigned. They are rotated with the  line due to R179 failure and the wrap taken off is probably from the deep wash that it was left loose like sticky tape being peeled off. 

Edited July 10, 2020 by Calvin
rotation with A reason

[Future ENY OP]

1 minute ago, Calvin said:

Not reassigned. They are rotated with the  line and the wrap taken off is probably from the deep wash that it was left loose like sticky tape being peeled off. 

Thanks for the clarification. 

Currently those set cars belong at CI for the

[QM1to6Ave]

27 minutes ago, Future ENY OP said:

police in NYPD Transit Division 33 territory.  Very interesting.  Usually you catch MTA police at GCT, PENN and JAMAICA. 

There goes part of the 500 deployed officers to the NYCT property.

I've seen MTA police often at 96th street on the 1/2/3, both on the mezzanine and riding the trains from the station  

[Future ENY OP]

19 minutes ago, QM1to6Ave said:

I've seen MTA police often at 96th street on the 1/2/3, both on the mezzanine and riding the trains from the station  

I believe it. They are out there now.  

[brakethrow]

Another good trip with a train op who really knew those timers between Franklin and Atlantic. Kept the train at a good 25-35 mph throughout most of that section compared to many who seems to run at a dreadful 20 and below.. Kept it wrapped up after clearing that little speed restriction out of Brooklyn Bridge. Pounded through those switches just before 14th St with a light brake just after and didn't apply more brake until he hit the platform.

I'll admit I've become borderline obsessed with this run.

 

 

[MHV9218]

[Eric Oszustowicz photo in Joe Testagrose collection]

Alright what the hell is going on in this one – this looks like a post-GOH R40 (new numberplates) with TA side logos and a completely unrecognizable rollsign I've never seen before? Any ideas?

[Coney Island Av]

@MHV9218

i know this has probably been noticed a while ago, but sadly the original 1980s-era "Akidenz-Grotesk?" rollsigns on 3510-11 have unfortunately been vandalized. i caught it last week doing refuse service along the  (with R42 pair 4830-31), and while the destination signs are still intact, the route bullet signs are missing... 

if you want pictures for proof then i can gladly upload them later.

[MHV9218]

1 hour ago, Coney Island Av said:

@MHV9218

i know this has probably been noticed a while ago, but sadly the original 1980s-era "Akidenz-Grotesk?" rollsigns on 3510-11 have unfortunately been vandalized. i caught it last week doing refuse service along the  (with R42 pair 4830-31), and while the destination signs are still intact, the route bullet signs are missing... 

if you want pictures for proof then i can gladly upload them later.

You mean the R27-R30 rolls on there? Darn. If it's refuse service it was probably somebody savvy in C Division taking home a souvenir. With 3380 vandalized ages ago, that means the 27-30 rolls are just about gone...