Brillant93 Posted September 20, 2019 Share #28651 Posted September 20, 2019 3 minutes ago, WestFarms36 said: Well has been using Articulation as a way to CUT service. The Bx36 literally got murdered in the Spring Pick back in April. A route who's headways would be 5-7 Minutes, turned into 12-14 Minute waits. Of course there are Articulated routes out there with short headways, but in those instances they are routes which NEED demand, but it isn't fair for the rider who has to wait during the scorching heat in July, and Hand Freezing cold in January to endure such a cut. The purpose of Articulation is to provide more capacity for a given route, not to use it as a way to quietly eliminate trips while at it. In other words, you are not increasing capacity when you are eliminating far more trips to carry even more people that will overcrowd the Articulated Buses instead. Let me create a scenario: Paul lives by the Bx35 and the route is currently running 40 Foot Standards. Paul has to be at work everyday by 8:30am, and his Job is in Washington Heights on the last stop. Paul starts his trip at E 167 St/Grand Concourse. Now his trip according to myMTA is 22 Minutes from his stop all the way to Washington Heights, Paul wants to allow an extra 10 Minutes onto his trip, so he wants to be there by 8:20am. Now according to the Bx35 Schedule for the Spring Pick, Effective April 28, 2019 during the 7am Hour there are 14 Buses scheduled to arrive at his stop, those trips are the :00, 04, 10, 14, 19, 23, 27, 31, 35, 39, 43, 47, 52, 57. Now According to the Bx35 Schedule for the Fall Pick, Effective September 1, 2019 during the 7am Hour there are now 10 Buses Scheduled to arrive at his stop, those trips are the :00, 06, 12, 19, 25, 31, 38, 44, 51, 57. Paul used to take the 7:57 trip which would arrive fairly crowded, that bus would be due in Washington Heights by 8:14am, if he would run a bit late, he'd have another bus due at his stop by 8:01am allowing him to arrive by 8:17am, still giving him time to go and clock in. Now post articulation, guess what happened to the people who would be on the 04, 10, 14, 23, 27, 35, and 47 Buses, well they are now packing onto the :00, 04, 10, 14, 19, 23, 27, 31, 35, 39, 43, 47, 52, 57 trips. So now that you've eliminated a few trips those people are coming out of their homes earlier or later to pack onto whatever they get, and when the bus is exceeding its passenger load, far more people who are at the Bus Stops are screwed since they can't get on the buses that pull up and have to wait for the next bus which arrives way later than what it used to be, hence making people late to work, school, appointments, etc, and all while INCREASING the WAIT TIMES at a stop. So in this case if Paul has to toss up his 7:57am bus because its overcrowded, he has to wait for the next one which arrives by 8:03am, dumping him off exactly at 8:20am at his stop, then making him late for work, let alone if he were to toss up the 8:03am bus because it was also overcrowded, he'd end up in the Heights by 8:26am, now leaving him 6 minutes late to work. Now, I am being generous to talk about the AM Rush, but if I made a scenario based during off-peak, or Sunday Service, then it would be far worse than this. I understand what you're saying but at the same time you're not taking into account the amount of space artic buses has over standard buses. People would pack into another bus if it were standard, but articulation accommodates space over time. Now if this were cuts given to a standard route, it would be very, very bad. The B44 sbs got its runs cut during april for the M14 sbs and its articulated and one of Brooklyns highest bus route. On top of that you have lots of other routes that are standard that have modest to high ridership that got cut back in spring. Off peak is different, and I know that but lets take it like this. If a depot has to put more buses onto a route that means they'll have to eventually cut another route in the same depot or another to make more buses run on that route itself. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WestFarms36 Posted September 20, 2019 Share #28652 Posted September 20, 2019 Just now, Brillant93 said: I understand what you're saying but at the same time you're not taking into account the amount of space artic buses has over standard buses. People would pack into another bus if it were standard, but articulation accommodates space over time. Now if this were cuts given to a standard route, it would be very, very bad. The B44 sbs got its runs cut during april for the M14 sbs and its articulated and one of Brooklyns highest bus route. On top of that you have lots of other routes that are standard that have modest to high ridership that got cut back in spring. Off peak is different, and I know that but lets take it like this. If a depot has to put more buses onto a route that means they'll have to eventually cut another route in the same depot or another to make more buses run on that route itself. Obviously Artics do offer more space, but the whole process is for nothing when you eliminate a ton of runs to pack people who would normally be on 5 40 Footers, onto 2 Artics. One thing is to Articulate a route to reach a route's growing demands, another is simply articulating a route to make people wait longer and pack them onto a single bus. 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brillant93 Posted September 20, 2019 Share #28653 Posted September 20, 2019 1 minute ago, WestFarms36 said: Obviously Artics do offer more space, but the whole process is for nothing when you eliminate a ton of runs to pack people who would normally be on 5 40 Footers, onto 2 Artics. One thing is to Articulate a route to reach a route's growing demands, another is simply articulating a route to make people wait longer and pack them onto a single bus. Well i've been saying for years some routes need them over certain routes. Like some of the bronx routes didn't need artics, but BK needed them on their routes for a long time. We're finally seeing it, but unfortunatley our ridership is going down. The B82 overtook the B41 which was a quite surprise to me, guess which one is going artic first? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WestFarms36 Posted September 20, 2019 Share #28654 Posted September 20, 2019 1 minute ago, Brillant93 said: Well i've been saying for years some routes need them over certain routes. Like some of the bronx routes didn't need artics, but BK needed them on their routes for a long time. We're finally seeing it, but unfortunatley our ridership is going down. The B82 overtook the B41 which was a quite surprise to me, guess which one is going artic first? Yeah, and to further simplify this. Have a 2 Mile route with 8 40 Foot Buses and 7-8 Minute waits. Now change that to 2 Articulated Buses with 16-18 Minute waits. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trainmaster5 Posted September 21, 2019 Share #28655 Posted September 21, 2019 1 hour ago, WestFarms36 said: Obviously Artics do offer more space, but the whole process is for nothing when you eliminate a ton of runs to pack people who would normally be on 5 40 Footers, onto 2 Artics. One thing is to Articulate a route to reach a route's growing demands, another is simply articulating a route to make people wait longer and pack them onto a single bus. That's exactly what I'm talking about. Thank you. It's a game being played by the that some of us warned about from the beginning. Wait 'til one of those artic run jobs goes uncovered for a day and maybe some people will understand what I'm trying to point out. You'd think that the second busiest route in NYC would have a service increase. Sounds like the people who urinate on a person's leg and try to pass it off as rain. My opinion. Carry on. 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
B35 via Church Posted September 21, 2019 Share #28656 Posted September 21, 2019 (edited) 17 hours ago, Trainmaster5 said: If wait times are increased but they run fewer buses, no matter the size, how is this better? If the ridership numbers remain the same all it adds up to is longer waits. The same amount of people are still being transported by my calculations. When it’s 20 degrees outside and Mr. Wind, aka the Hawk, is kicking butt I doubt if everyone will feel the same way you do. I never expected to see someone agreeing with a service cut , as per the Daily News article, on a transit advocacy forum. Just my opinion. Carry on. While I vehemently disagree with specifically changing fleets to justify system-wide service cuts, I can't agree with the simple notion of never concurring with any service cut.... Even if the intent isn't as such, it gives off the aura of that of being anti-change & let's face it, the bus network in this city is antiquated.... 14 hours ago, WestFarms36 said: Obviously Artics do offer more space, but the whole process is for nothing when you eliminate a ton of runs to pack people who would normally be on 5 40 Footers, onto 2 Artics. One thing is to Articulate a route to reach a route's growing demands, another is simply articulating a route to make people wait longer and pack them onto a single bus. 12 hours ago, Trainmaster5 said: That's exactly what I'm talking about. Thank you. It's a game being played by the that some of us warned about from the beginning. Wait 'til one of those artic run jobs goes uncovered for a day and maybe some people will understand what I'm trying to point out. You'd think that the second busiest route in NYC would have a service increase. Sounds like the people who urinate on a person's leg and try to pass it off as rain. My opinion. Carry on. I've said this from day one, back when you had enthusiasts in this transit community ecstatic over their inauguration in this city.... The MTA doesn't use artics to address capacity, they use them as money-saving measures... Replacing a 40' with a 60' (1:1 conversion) isn't & has never been the aim..... It's a sly attempt at generated demand by way of revocation & its disgusting... I've said this before & I'll say it again - let there be a situation where artics are consistently running empty on some route for any prolonged period.... This will open the more for more service cuts, because, how dare we run these LARGER buses on the road & these people (the riding public) still aren't using them (bunching & other unmitigating factors be damned)..... The flipside of this, is the illusion & portrayal of increasing ridership on some route, because the LARGER buses are more crowded now..... When you exchange four quarters for a Susan B. Anthony, you don't have more money... The MTA will have the riding public believe a 50 cent piece is of an equivalent value of that of a dollar coin, just because it is almost equivalent in size..... I refuse to "buy" it.... And so should all of you. Edited September 21, 2019 by B35 via Church post combination.... 6 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jova42R Posted September 21, 2019 Share #28657 Posted September 21, 2019 What is the least used bus in NYC? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MHV184 Posted September 21, 2019 Share #28658 Posted September 21, 2019 5 minutes ago, Jova42R said: What is the least used bus in NYC? M55,M12, and M8 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BM5 via Woodhaven Posted September 21, 2019 Share #28659 Posted September 21, 2019 (edited) 6 minutes ago, MHV184 said: M55,M12, and M8 The S55 and S56 definitely have lower ridership than all three. The two combined may not even reach the total ridership of the M55. EDIT: The S55 & S56 combined how significantly less ridership than the M12 (weekday and annual). In fact, they both have less ridership than the M12, which have the lowest ridership counts of the three. The S55 though has the lowest overall. Edited September 21, 2019 by BM5 via Woodhaven 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NBTA Posted September 21, 2019 Share #28660 Posted September 21, 2019 I always thought about the 3 40s=2 60s thing was a joke. Some of these lines actually do require for the 3 40s to be swapped for 3 60s. The B35 and the Bx6 +SBS+ are the only lines I can think of that actually retained or was close to retaining the full service when they had 40s before switching to the 60s. On the flip side, sometimes the 3 40s to 2 60s thing worked. Some lines didn't need to run every 4 minutes when it can run every 8-10 and still have seats available to anyone. I live off of 3 of the top 25 busiest lines in the city (Bx1/2/9), and even some of those buses are empty depending on timing and the masses at the time. Its just something that fluctuates from time to time, I completely understand everyone's points on how the conversion is just a money saving move, but, sometimes they work, sometimes they don't. Just leaving my opinion here, feel free to disagree. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bobtehpanda Posted September 21, 2019 Share #28661 Posted September 21, 2019 Shit like this affecting how much time I have left in the day when I get home is why I moved the hell away, to a place that actually funds service improvements and artics, because it turns out you can walk and chew gum at the same time. No one, from the city to the state to the MTA, is actually going to fix the problem, because they would rather play games and score points against the others. The next constitutional convention for the state is in 20 years, so good luck with that. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MHV9218 Posted September 21, 2019 Share #28662 Posted September 21, 2019 2 hours ago, MHV184 said: M55,M12, and M8 Not even close. Those aren't even the lowest in Manhattan. The MTA breaks down by NYCB and MTAB, but of NYCB M55 is #160/183, M12 is #177/183, and the M8 is #163/183. There are a number of Bronx, Brooklyn, and SI routes significantly below all of those. Those aren't even the worst in Manhattan. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lex Posted September 21, 2019 Share #28663 Posted September 21, 2019 1 hour ago, NBTA said: The B35 and the Bx6 +SBS+ are the only lines I can think of that actually retained or was close to retaining the full service when they had 40s before switching to the 60s. You sure you're not thinking of the local? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
B35 via Church Posted September 21, 2019 Share #28664 Posted September 21, 2019 1 hour ago, NBTA said: I always thought about the 3 40s=2 60s thing was a joke. Some of these lines actually do require for the 3 40s to be swapped for 3 60s. The B35 and the Bx6 +SBS+ are the only lines I can think of that actually retained or was close to retaining the full service when they had 40s before switching to the 60s. On the flip side, sometimes the 3 40s to 2 60s thing worked. Some lines didn't need to run every 4 minutes when it can run every 8-10 and still have seats available to anyone. I live off of 3 of the top 25 busiest lines in the city (Bx1/2/9), and even some of those buses are empty depending on timing and the masses at the time. Its just something that fluctuates from time to time, I completely understand everyone's points on how the conversion is just a money saving move, but, sometimes they work, sometimes they don't. Just leaving my opinion here, feel free to disagree. Yeah, and the MTA will keep pushing that envelope.... The # of service cuts this agency makes, somehow always trumps service increases.... Imagine that.... 16 minutes ago, bobtehpanda said: Shit like this affecting how much time I have left in the day when I get home is why I moved the hell away, to a place that actually funds service improvements and artics, because it turns out you can walk and chew gum at the same time. No one, from the city to the state to the MTA, is actually going to fix the problem, because they would rather play games and score points against the others. The next constitutional convention for the state is in 20 years, so good luck with that. Don't blame you one bit. 2 hours ago, MHV184 said: M55,M12, and M8 Can't be.... The M55 carries somewhere around 2k riders/day.... There are quite a number of routes in this city that don't even break 4 figures (whether that be due to their service span or whatever, but they still gotta be factored in).... 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NBTA Posted September 21, 2019 Share #28665 Posted September 21, 2019 1 hour ago, Lex said: You sure you're not thinking of the local? More so the whole route really, both the local and SBS retained most, if not all of its service. I could be wrong though. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Future ENY OP Posted September 21, 2019 Share #28666 Posted September 21, 2019 2 hours ago, bobtehpanda said: Shit like this affecting how much time I have left in the day when I get home is why I moved the hell away, to a place that actually funds service improvements and artics, because it turns out you can walk and chew gum at the same time. No one, from the city to the state to the MTA, is actually going to fix the problem, because they would rather play games and score points against the others. The next constitutional convention for the state is in 20 years, so good luck with that. ... and even with the next convention (potentially) sh*t in New York State will never change. When you have politics dictate the state of transportation than things won’t change in NYC. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NBTA Posted September 22, 2019 Share #28667 Posted September 22, 2019 Speaking of Artic, the B46 +SBS+ is next in the January Pick. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Iron Valiant Posted September 22, 2019 Share #28668 Posted September 22, 2019 1 hour ago, NBTA said: Speaking of Artic, the B46 +SBS+ is next in the January Pick. January Pick starts on 1/5/20, correct? (That’s the first Sunday of the month). 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NBTA Posted September 22, 2019 Share #28669 Posted September 22, 2019 11 minutes ago, Snorunts said: January Pick starts on 1/5/20, correct? (That’s the first Sunday of the month). I believe so sir. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Future ENY OP Posted September 22, 2019 Share #28670 Posted September 22, 2019 2 hours ago, Snorunts said: January Pick starts on 1/5/20, correct? (That’s the first Sunday of the month). Technically yes. However, that could be subject to change as all things with the . 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Union Tpke Posted September 23, 2019 Share #28671 Posted September 23, 2019 Screen Shot 2019-09-22 at 6.18.09 AM by Union Turnpike, on Flickr 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Around the Horn Posted September 23, 2019 Share #28672 Posted September 23, 2019 1 hour ago, Union Tpke said: Screen Shot 2019-09-22 at 6.18.09 AM by Union Turnpike, on Flickr Oh I can't wait for this... The taxis and ubers are really brazen on 2nd Av in the PM peak 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Future ENY OP Posted September 23, 2019 Share #28673 Posted September 23, 2019 1 hour ago, Union Tpke said: Screen Shot 2019-09-22 at 6.18.09 AM by Union Turnpike, on Flickr Let the ticket blitz begin. Is this coming to the B44/46SBS+ coming soon?? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brillant93 Posted September 23, 2019 Share #28674 Posted September 23, 2019 They should allow taxis, Uber’s, and Lyfts drive along bus lanes, it can help ease up traffic from regular passenger traffic. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Around the Horn Posted September 23, 2019 Share #28675 Posted September 23, 2019 10 minutes ago, Brillant93 said: They should allow taxis, Uber’s, and Lyfts drive along bus lanes, it can help ease up traffic from regular passenger traffic. Absolutely not... It's a bus lane not a ride share lane. 9 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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