BUS - Random Thoughts Thread

[MassTransitHonchkrow]

The and B37 serve completely different areas. In any case you can't really feasibly have it start at City Hall because the Brooklyn Bridge prohibits buses, and it'd be too unreliable anyways. Even with the being unreliable as it is, it's more reliable than a bus crossing the river.

I forgot about the CDL restrictions. Whoops

 

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[Cait Sith]

I saw 7368 at Westchester Square yesterday. Any particular reason it could be up there? It still had the CS stickers on so I don't think it was a move.

 

 

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It was being used as one of a few 19A Recertification buses for operators. A Baisley Park hybrid was also used with a few others.

Edited November 11, 2016 by Cait Sith

[Q43LTD]

Funniest ever...Since Honckrow wants to give the B37 SBS, that's like giving the Q88 LTD service!

[DaTransitMan4608]

It was being used as one of a few 19A Recertification buses for operators. A Baisley Park hybrid was also used with a few others.

I did see an OG Hybrid there too. I was thinking it was a WF loan for a minute.

 

 

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[BM5 via Woodhaven]

Well I'm just saying... You can't have it both ways... Besides, people generally don't like waiting for long periods of time for a bus during the AM rush so I think the headways make sense on Union Turnpike.  As for the QM2 and QM20, I'm sure those folks will get whatever bus they need.  I mean when I use the QM2 I know that I need to be at the stop early because those buses tend to run hot.  We're talking about areas where people normally drive anyway so it's not that big of a deal.  A lot of Queens is not only suburban but also more car centric than other areas with express bus service, and that certainly affects usage.

I don't think you're understanding what I'm trying to say.

 

Your third sentence is contradicting. Have you seen the schedule for the AM rush? At Union Turnpike & 188 Street, the QM6 arrives at :03, the QM1 arrives at :15, and the QM5 arrives at :55. So for everyone west of 188 Street, you have a 12 minute headway, then a 40 minute headway, then a 8 minute headway. The 3 Avenue services have a similar issue, because the QM31 arrives at :10, the QM35 at :35, and the QM36 at :03. In the PM, the same ordeal. The QM1 departs at :00, the QM6 at :05, and the QM5 at :45. On 3 Avenue, the QM31 departs at :00, and then you have both the QM35 and QM36 departing at :15 (and then nothing for 45 minute). 

 

You say that they can't have it both ways; that's false. If that was the case, then we wouldn't have the QM5 and QM6 operate on its current schedule on Saturdays, with a even distribution of the combined headway going inbound (the QM5 leaving at :24, the QM6 leaving at :48, which is the way how it should be set up). Yes I know not as many people use the routes on those days, but you might as well make it appealing for the people who are attempting to use the bus. I'd rather have one bus every 30 minutes instead of two buses together (or pretty close to it) every 60 minutes. Especially on days like this, it will cause an imbalance of loads, with one bus having riders, and the other almost empty. 

[Via Garibaldi 8]

I don't think you're understanding what I'm trying to say.

 

Your third sentence is contradicting. Have you seen the schedule for the AM rush? At Union Turnpike & 188 Street, the QM6 arrives at :03, the QM1 arrives at :15, and the QM5 arrives at :55. So for everyone west of 188 Street, you have a 12 minute headway, then a 40 minute headway, then a 8 minute headway. The 3 Avenue services have a similar issue, because the QM31 arrives at :10, the QM35 at :35, and the QM36 at :03. In the PM, the same ordeal. The QM1 departs at :00, the QM6 at :05, and the QM5 at :45. On 3 Avenue, the QM31 departs at :00, and then you have both the QM35 and QM36 departing at :15 (and then nothing for 45 minute). 

 

You say that they can't have it both ways; that's false. If that was the case, then we wouldn't have the QM5 and QM6 operate on its current schedule on Saturdays, with a even distribution of the combined headway going inbound (the QM5 leaving at :24, the QM6 leaving at :48, which is the way how it should be set up). Yes I know not as many people use the routes on those days, but you might as well make it appealing for the people who are attempting to use the bus. I'd rather have one bus every 30 minutes instead of two buses together (or pretty close to it) every 60 minutes. Especially on days like this, it will cause an imbalance of loads, with one bus having riders, and the other almost empty.

 

Perhaps it will and perhaps it won't but the thing is don't a lot of people drive to Union Turnpike for their bus? I think that's the big difference. Living in suburban areas, you learn to adjust to schedules. The BxM18 is running once an hour in the AM and PM. If I want to use that bus I'll adjust. Believe me I usually work on MLK and the crowds are not a big deal overall in the sense that the buses provided should be able to handle the loads. If they can't for that one day the can adjust the schedule. For Black Friday, very few people work, so it'll be service for people mainly shopping.

[Missabassie]

Whoever's driving 6675 on the M2 needs some humiliating retraining. Dickface wants to move one minute, the next he acts like 'e doesn't know how to drive a f**king bus.

 

I wanna kick this guys ass (not that I actually would)

 

 

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Edited November 12, 2016 by Missabassie

[IAlam]

They may have... Just not an official one... They should though.  When I lived on Staten Island, working on MLK was annoying because we never knew when an express bus was scheduled. 

Going back to this you can get the schedule on trip planner

 

http://tripplanner.mta.info/MyTrip/ui_web/serviceinthearea/Default.aspx

[checkmatechamp13]

Funniest ever...Since Honckrow wants to give the B37 SBS, that's like giving the Q88 LTD service!

 

As part of the NE Queens Bus Study, they're going to be looking into giving the Q88 limited-stop service and/or a zone express.

[bobtehpanda]

As part of the NE Queens Bus Study, they're going to be looking into giving the Q88 limited-stop service and/or a zone express.

 

What's a zone express again?

 

If you were going to do an LTD, it'd probably be good to have a setup similar to the Q46LTD, so that when the LTD is running all buses east of 188 make limited stops to QCM and all locals start at QCM.

Edited November 13, 2016 by bobtehpanda

[BM5 via Woodhaven]

What's a zone express again?

 

If you were going to do an LTD, it'd probably be good to have a setup similar to the Q46LTD, so that when the LTD is running all buses east of 188 make limited stops to QCM and all locals start at QCM.

It's similar to the way the n22X used to be configured. non-stop from the subway to a specific point, then local until the end of the route.

 

The Q88 needs some sort of adjustment, because even with the headways in the AM, we still have people being flagged. During the rush hour, you can have local buses run to Francis Lewis Boulevard (gives riders in those areas a another way to the subway), while you can also have limiteds from QV (because the local stops are not as heavy with ridership that they can afford to lose service). This is already the case during school days, because of the buses going to St. Francis Prep; it's just a matter of making the buses in the opposite direction run in service. Limited stops would be at QCM, Junction Boulevard, 99 Street, 108 Street, Main Street, Kissena Boulevard, 164 Street, Utopia Parkway, and 188 Street.

 

As for a Q88X, perhaps some of those runs to Francis Lewis Boulevard (school days only) in the AM only can run non-stop until Main Street. Often times, nobody gets off before Main Street, and I've been on buses which have went straight to Main Street without picking up riders. Buses get clogged because way too many people wait at 108 Street, that people walk to the previous stops in order to try to catch the bus (although they're often unsuccessful). Many people from LeFrak City also walk to QCM in the morning to catch a bus. You can fill up 2 buses in a span of 6 minutes during the height of the rush, because there are just way too many people (not just students, but reverse commuters as well). 

 

If you look at the schedule, the headway is every 6 minutes on the schedule, but that's without listing the Francis Lewis Bouelard runs (which run every 6 minutes too). So the headway is actually every 3 minutes, with a Q88 Local, Q88 Limited, and Q88X operating every 9 minutes). The students to St.Francis Prep will see an increase an headway for their bus, but those buses will likely be packed already. If buses get too packed, the non-stop segment can be expanded to Queens College (so everyone getting off at Main Street, which are a lot, would have to take a local or limited, since the X would not stop at Main Street in that case). Also, if the local and/or limited have lighter loads than the X, then the express segment would be expanded. The point here is not to make service faster for anyone in particular, but to redistribute loads, because the current Q88 pattern (all local) actually causes an imbalance in loads (some buses leave the mall light, some leave very packed). At least with the different patterns, one would likely wait for a specific bus (anyone from QCM going past Main Street would likely take the Q88X, anyone going to Francis Lewis Boulevard to QCM would take the Q88X, and riders between QCM and 108 Street now have emptier buses, at a combined headway of 4.5 minutes, allowing them to actually get on the bus and wait for God knows how long. 

Edited November 13, 2016 by BM5 via Woodhaven Bl

[Around the Horn]

If you are going to have a Q88X, stopping at 153rd Street and Reeves Avenue should be a requirement. Those two stops are where the bus easily loses half its passengers

[BM5 via Woodhaven]

If you are going to have a Q88X, stopping at 153rd Street and Reeves Avenue should be a requirement. Those two stops are where the bus easily loses half its passengers

I will agree with having stops there, but I disagree with the rest of the statement. In the AM especially, most of the bus tanks out at Main Street, and then more people get on. Queens College and Townsend Harris High School students do use the route, but not as much as the students going to John Bowne High School (combined).

 

After Main Street, it's not until you get to Utopia Parkway where the bus tanks out again.

[JubaionBx12+SBS]

The problem is that Q88 frequencies are poor outside of AM Rush trips from QCM and the 3-5 PM block. Having any kind of variants for a window that narrow doesn't make too much sense. In addition, frequencies would be further reduced if the MTA found a way to use LTD or a non-stop zone service to cut into local service during the midday and PM Rush. 

[BM5 via Woodhaven]

The problem is that Q88 frequencies are poor outside of AM Rush trips from QCM and the 3-5 PM block. Having any kind of variants for a window that narrow doesn't make too much sense. In addition, frequencies would be further reduced if the MTA found a way to use LTD or a non-stop zone service to cut into local service during the midday and PM Rush. 

You can't, because the demand is not the same. The MTA recently added service during the midday hours because of high demand (these buses now come like clockwork all day). The AM demand in the reverse-peak direction is significantly higher than most other periods. The only reason the PM doesn't need it is because all the different schools have different end times, and because students get out at different time. Same with Queens College. Just wait at QCM between 7 to 8:30 AM; you have to fight your way to get onto the bus because there's no line (there's just a crowd of people). If there was an actual, without a doubt, it would stretch all the way down to 57 Avenue (and probably even farther).

 

Like I also mentioned, a lot of the ridership on the Q88 already comes from "limited" stops, or stops where there already high concentrations (the Q17 LTD stops, Kissena, Main Street, 108 Street, 99 Street, Junction Boulevard, and QCM). The amount of people inconvenienced would be low. That doesn't mean the current Q88 should have a limited during middays as is. As for a Q88 limited during PM, keep in mind that there's trips there that are not on the school (like the multiple school trippers). The current schedule says that the headway is every 2-3 minutes more or less (that's without the school trippers) on the busier part of the route. You could still have a limited during those times, which would help the distribution of buses. Those trips from Francis Lewis Boulevard would be Q88X's instead.

 

Not only would this help redistribute loads, but because many of these buses are delayed because of the loads and the people getting off at the stops with lower passenger concentration. I was on a bus that actually made no stops until Main Street once, and then made only two other stops between Main and Utopia, that cut 10 minutes off the trip (We got to Utopia in 15 minutes from QCM). Passenger loads from the stops with lower passenger concentration also rises at a certain time, and then buses are passing and flagging people because its too full to get them.  

Edited November 13, 2016 by BM5 via Woodhaven Bl

[B35 via Church]

....but the thing is don't a lot of people drive to Union Turnpike for their bus

Nope.... Most are within walking distance from their homes...

The Staten Island phenomenon isn't apparent along Union Tpke...

 

The only driving to the Union Tpke expresses I'm aware of, doesn't even happen along Union Tpke.... It's of Nassau county patrons park & riding up along LNP around HHE.... Quick dive off the LIE to HHE (that's why there's so many parked cars in that immediate area... this includes inside the parking lot of that little shopping plaza where the Q30/QM3 ends).... It's usually NHP, that is, "North" NHP residents that don't want to do the x68 thing....

 

Funniest ever...Since Honckrow wants to give the B37 SBS, that's like giving the Q88 LTD service!

....Or the Q36  

 

Oh, wait

 

As part of the NE Queens Bus Study, they're going to be looking into giving the Q88 limited-stop service and/or a zone express.

Oh, FFS.... Well (much like the presidential election), it's the lesser of two evils; at least it isn't the old Q88 to Little Neck BS....

 

What's a zone express again?

A service that's a fusion of a point-to-point route & a fixed, local route.... It's akin to a "super LTD" for a localized area.... A type of local-express route, I guess you could say (it's not nearly like a consistent skip-stop based service like our LTD's are)....

 

If the B103 to/from Downtown Bklyn. made less stops b/w [Canarsie & the Junction] and b/w [Kensington & Downtown itself], it would definitely qualify..... If I could go on a mini-rant for a sec; I have to say that I hate the way the 103 is slowly turning into a super local....

 

The Q88 needs some sort of adjustment, because even with the headways in the AM, we still have people being flagged. During the rush hour, you can have local buses run to Francis Lewis Boulevard (gives riders in those areas a another way to the subway), while you can also have limiteds from QV (because the local stops are not as heavy with ridership that they can afford to lose service). This is already the case during school days, because of the buses going to St. Francis Prep; it's just a matter of making the buses in the opposite direction run in service. Limited stops would be at QCM, Junction Boulevard, 99 Street, 108 Street, Main Street, Kissena Boulevard, 164 Street, Utopia Parkway, and 188 Street.

 

As for a Q88X, perhaps some of those runs to Francis Lewis Boulevard (school days only) in the AM only can run non-stop until Main Street. Often times, nobody gets off before Main Street, and I've been on buses which have went straight to Main Street without picking up riders. Buses get clogged because way too many people wait at 108 Street, that people walk to the previous stops in order to try to catch the bus (although they're often unsuccessful). Many people from LeFrak City also walk to QCM in the morning to catch a bus. You can fill up 2 buses in a span of 6 minutes during the height of the rush, because there are just way too many people (not just students, but reverse commuters as well). 

 

If you look at the schedule, the headway is every 6 minutes on the schedule, but that's without listing the Francis Lewis Bouelard runs (which run every 6 minutes too). So the headway is actually every 3 minutes, with a Q88 Local, Q88 Limited, and Q88X operating every 9 minutes). The students to St.Francis Prep will see an increase an headway for their bus, but those buses will likely be packed already. If buses get too packed, the non-stop segment can be expanded to Queens College (so everyone getting off at Main Street, which are a lot, would have to take a local or limited, since the X would not stop at Main Street in that case). Also, if the local and/or limited have lighter loads than the X, then the express segment would be expanded. The point here is not to make service faster for anyone in particular, but to redistribute loads, because the current Q88 pattern (all local) actually causes an imbalance in loads (some buses leave the mall light, some leave very packed). At least with the different patterns, one would likely wait for a specific bus (anyone from QCM going past Main Street would likely take the Q88X, anyone going to Francis Lewis Boulevard to QCM would take the Q88X, and riders between QCM and 108 Street now have emptier buses, at a combined headway of 4.5 minutes, allowing them to actually get on the bus and wait for God knows how long. 

The Q88 should be truncated on the eastern end & more short turns throughout the day instantiated..... LTD service is not necessary on this route at all, even less so than the current Q36.... While every trip should serve QB/the mall/the subway, there are simply too many trips running to Jamaica av..... The crawling along HHE b/w Kissena & 188th has also got to stop....

 

The route is as long as it is for no good reason.... While the Q88 is vital in Oakland Gardens, it's simply not in Queens Village; it's just another bus along Springfield.... At best, it should terminate (back) at Hillside & that's it.... My idea for the route may be taking it too far, but I sincerely believe that it doesn't have to run past Union Tpke.... Virtually no one in that general region of Queens is really thinking about getting to HHE for WB service; once the route hits Q46 country, the route significantly loses importance... and the same schoolkids you're making a case for, lose out of (possible, enhanced) Q88 service because of it.... It's isht like this that has people shunning buses at an increasing rate in this city....

 

Those are the major problems I have w/ the Q88; You can make a case for better redistribution of loads w LTD trips & 'X' trips & what not, but I never cared for how this route operates to begin with....

The problem is that Q88 frequencies are poor outside of AM Rush trips from QCM and the 3-5 PM block. Having any kind of variants for a window that narrow doesn't make too much sense. In addition, frequencies would be further reduced if the MTA found a way to use LTD or a non-stop zone service to cut into local service during the midday and PM Rush. 

Thank you.

[IAlam]

You can't, because the demand is not the same. The MTA recently added service during the midday hours because of high demand (these buses now come like clockwork all day). The AM demand in the reverse-peak direction is significantly higher than most other periods. The only reason the PM doesn't need it is because all the different schools have different end times, and because students get out at different time. Same with Queens College. Just wait at QCM between 7 to 8:30 AM; you have to fight your way to get onto the bus because there's no line (there's just a crowd of people). If there was an actual, without a doubt, it would stretch all the way down to 57 Avenue (and probably even farther).

 

Like I also mentioned, a lot of the ridership on the Q88 already comes from "limited" stops, or stops where there already high concentrations (the Q17 LTD stops, Kissena, Main Street, 108 Street, 99 Street, Junction Boulevard, and QCM). The amount of people inconvenienced would be low. That doesn't mean the current Q88 should have a limited during middays as is. As for a Q88 limited during PM, keep in mind that there's trips there that are not on the school (like the multiple school trippers). The current schedule says that the headway is every 2-3 minutes more or less (that's without the school trippers) on the busier part of the route. You could still have a limited during those times, which would help the distribution of buses. Those trips from Francis Lewis Boulevard would be Q88X's instead.

 

Not only would this help redistribute loads, but because many of these buses are delayed because of the loads and the people getting off at the stops with lower passenger concentration. I was on a bus that actually made no stops until Main Street once, and then made only two other stops between Main and Utopia, that cut 10 minutes off the trip (We got to Utopia in 15 minutes from QCM). Passenger loads from the stops with lower passenger concentration also rises at a certain time, and then buses are passing and flagging people because its too full to get them.  

Your statement proves why the Q88 LTD is unnecessary.

 

Throwing my two cents in, if I had anything to do with a Q88X I'd just have a bus run non stop between Main and QCM, as much as the Q38 sucks, it has capacity and people need to use it. The Q88 should be really for people going east of Corona park.

[bobtehpanda]

The route is as long as it is for no good reason.... While the Q88 is vital in Oakland Gardens, it's simply not in Queens Village; it's just another bus along Springfield.... At best, it should terminate (back) at Hillside & that's it.... My idea for the route may be taking it too far, but I sincerely believe that it doesn't have to run past Union Tpke.... Virtually no one in that general region of Queens is really thinking about getting to HHE for WB service; once the route hits Q46 country, the route significantly loses importance... and the same schoolkids you're making a case for, lose out of (possible, enhanced) Q88 service because of it.... It's isht like this that has people shunning buses at an increasing rate in this city....

 

At Hillside it picks up a decent amount; I wouldn't go so far to say that it should stop at Union. Unfortunately, the Q88 is basically the only route for going between Fresh Meadows and that part of Eastern Queens. On top of that if you're heading to HHE from that section of Queens, it is definitely way faster than going to 188 St and changing to the Q17.

 

The problem then is that if you're running to Hillside, it's not that much farther to Jamaica Av, and you go down the slippery slope of extending the bus a block here and there before you actually wind up at QV. But in general routes passing through that general area need to be reworked (Q1, Q27, Q36, Q43, Q88)

[B35 via Church]

At Hillside it picks up a decent amount; I wouldn't go so far to say that it should stop at Union. Unfortunately, the Q88 is basically the only route for going between Fresh Meadows and that part of Eastern Queens. On top of that if you're heading to HHE from that section of Queens, it is definitely way faster than going to 188 St and changing to the Q17.

 

The problem then is that if you're running to Hillside, it's not that much farther to Jamaica Av, and you go down the slippery slope of extending the bus a block here and there before you actually wind up at QV. But in general routes passing through that general area need to be reworked (Q1, Q27, Q36, Q43, Q88)

I'm not denying that it picks up at Hillside, but at the same time, the Q88 itself isn't that much useful past Union Tpke - and definitely not past Hillside (outside of providing supplemental service along Springfield).... Way too much ridership on the Q88 further up the route (i.e., the very riders BM5's talking about) to worry about providing coverage to a general area of the borough (from Fresh Meadows & points west) that the masses aren't really seeking on the route anyway....

 

I'll take that loss of ridership on the Q88 if it means fixing the problems currently plaguing that route....

If you tell me that the Q88 is in that range of 10-12k riders per day (if it isn't, then just correct me.... don't feel like searching for the ridership stats right now), how much of that will be lost from cutting it back to Union Tpke? Or Hillside av?

 

There's too significant a span b/w the Q17 on 188th & the Q88 on Springfield to make the point potent that the Q88 is much faster than xferring to the Q17.... In other words, if I'm trying to get to Jamaica proper, I'm not thinking about the Q88... If I'm trying to get to Queens Village, I'm not thinking about the Q17.....

 

The notion of *it's not that much farther* from Hillside to Jamaica is the same mindset that got the Q27 extended all the way down to 120th.... Which had some folks on these boards back in the day suggesting that it should be sent down to Merrick (since 120th is in the middle of nothing in-particular)....

 

I will agree that the network down there needs reconfiguration - Hell, we've (you included) brought up & discussed ideas regarding the Hillside routes before... As of this calendar year if memory serves me right....

[78 via Stew Leonards]

I wish the private bus companies of Brooklyn and Queens were still around.

[BM5 via Woodhaven]

I wish the private bus companies of Brooklyn and Queens were still around.

So that there would be subpar service, and a bunch of inefficient routes serving decreasing demand still running (both local and express)? Yeah, no thanks! The only thing appealing about them were their color schemes in contrast to NYCT buses. Most of these companies though offered such unreliable service.

Edited November 14, 2016 by BM5 via Woodhaven Bl

[bobtehpanda]

I'm not denying that it picks up at Hillside, but at the same time, the Q88 itself isn't that much useful past Union Tpke - and definitely not past Hillside (outside of providing supplemental service along Springfield).... Way too much ridership on the Q88 further up the route (i.e., the very riders BM5's talking about) to worry about providing coverage to a general area of the borough (from Fresh Meadows & points west) that the masses aren't really seeking on the route anyway....

 

I'll take that loss of ridership on the Q88 if it means fixing the problems currently plaguing that route....

If you tell me that the Q88 is in that range of 10-12k riders per day (if it isn't, then just correct me.... don't feel like searching for the ridership stats right now), how much of that will be lost from cutting it back to Union Tpke? Or Hillside av?

 

There's too significant a span b/w the Q17 on 188th & the Q88 on Springfield to make the point potent that the Q88 is much faster than xferring to the Q17.... In other words, if I'm trying to get to Jamaica proper, I'm not thinking about the Q88... If I'm trying to get to Queens Village, I'm not thinking about the Q17.....

 

The notion of *it's not that much farther* from Hillside to Jamaica is the same mindset that got the Q27 extended all the way down to 120th.... Which had some folks on these boards back in the day suggesting that it should be sent down to Merrick (since 120th is in the middle of nothing in-particular)....

 

I will agree that the network down there needs reconfiguration - Hell, we've (you included) brought up & discussed ideas regarding the Hillside routes before... As of this calendar year if memory serves me right....

 

My point about the Q17/Q88 remark was to talk about which is faster if you're trying to get to HHE from east of, say, Francis Lewis on Union, HIllside, and Jamaica. I'm not saying the "it's not that much farther" remark is correct.

 

I've only ever used the Q88 during the mid-day; do kids from Martin Van Buren use the route?

[Q43LTD]

 

....Or the Q36

 

Oh, wait

 

 

Now THAT was a big mistake by the

 

I wish the private bus companies of Brooklyn and Queens were still around.

Yeah, I wish the Q44 was still local...PSYCH! (had to go '90s on that one) What good would that do if the PBL's were still around?

 

My point about the Q17/Q88 remark was to talk about which is faster if you're trying to get to HHE from east of, say, Francis Lewis on Union, HIllside, and Jamaica. I'm not saying the "it's not that much farther" remark is correct.

 

I've only ever used the Q88 during the mid-day; do kids from Martin Van Buren use the route?

I highly doubt it. I think all the MVB kids bombard the Q43 and the trippers on the Q1 and 27

[BreeddekalbL]

So that there would be subpar service, and a bunch of inefficient routes serving decreasing demand still running (both local and express)? Yeah, no thanks! The only thing appealing about them were their color schemes in contrast to NYCT buses. Most of these companies though offered such unreliable service.

 

plus would you rather have a bus with replacement panels and doors with different colors and breaking down buses left and right?

[LegoBrickBreaker101]

Now THAT was a big mistake by the

 

Just wondering because I haven't really rode the Q36 LTD, but why was it a mistake?