Decision made in (L) closure

[Kingjunior34]

For service to Manhattan a few L trains can go via the J line

 

8th ave (A,C,E)

 

transfer at Fulton st for uptown A,C trains to 14 st

 

6th ave (1,2,3,F,M)

 

transfer at Fulton st for uptown 2,3 trains to 14 st

Or

Transfer at Essex st for uptown F,M trains to 14 st

 

14 st union square

 

(4,5,6,N,Q,R)

Transfer st Brookyln bridge city hall or canal st for 4,5,6 for uptown to 14st

Or

Transfer at canal st for N,Q,R for uptown to 14 st

 

3rd and 1st ave(m15sbs)

 

transfer at Essex st for uptown m15 sbs to 14 st

 

 

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[Union Tpke]

That seems like a very poor thought out plan then... Nothing is happening between those stations and yet they have NO way of running trains there.... 

 They can have something done if they listen to the RPA.

http://library.rpa.org/pdf/RPA-A-New-L-Train-for-New-Yorkers.pdf

[Via Garibaldi 8]

 They can have something done if they listen to the RPA.

http://library.rpa.org/pdf/RPA-A-New-L-Train-for-New-Yorkers.pdf

Agreed... If they can't use the stations, then they might as well rehabilitate them now as best they can with the resources that they have.

[Union Tpke]

Agreed... If they can't use the stations, then they might as well rehabilitate them now as best they can with the resources that they have.

 

I have a feeling that they will blow the opportunity like they usually do. I hope that community leaders in Manhattan put pressure on the MTA to do this.

[Via Garibaldi 8]

I have a feeling that they will blow the opportunity like they usually do. I hope that community leaders in Manhattan put pressure on the MTA to do this.

Well they'd also have to find funding for this and obviously this wouldn't fall under federal funding from Sandy... I imagine their funding projects are already set even though this won't happen until 2019.

[RailRunRob]

 

The full closure is the more efficient solution, since the extra train cars can be used for the other lines. Morevoer, a lot of upgrades can be implemented simultaneously: additional exits at 1st and Bedford Aves to improve bottlenecks there, plus an upgrade of the power system to allow for up to 6 tph more during rush hour (30 percent capacity increase).

 

How would I redirect riders during the shutdown:

1. Run the maximum amount of service. 24/7 Manhattan service, terminate at 57 Av during non-weekdays.
2. 24/7 bus bridge from Delancey / Essex to Williamsburg (Bedford Ave).
3. Lengthen the to accommodate transfers at Metropolitan - Lorimer. The should be able to handle the transfers at Court Sq.

 

I feel like the Bus bridge would be more effect from Lorimer street. More room for staging and layovers.. and easier access to the Bridge.

[TheNewYorkElevated]

This: http://qns.com/story/2016/07/25/design-studio-proposes-e-train-extension-to-alleviate-negative-effects-of-the-18-month-l-train-shutdown/

[RailRunRob]

This: http://qns.com/story/2016/07/25/design-studio-proposes-e-train-extension-to-alleviate-negative-effects-of-the-18-month-l-train-shutdown/

Is there enough rolling stock to support this?

[IAlam]

This: http://qns.com/story/2016/07/25/design-studio-proposes-e-train-extension-to-alleviate-negative-effects-of-the-18-month-l-train-shutdown/

 

 

Is there enough rolling stock to support this?

Doesn't matter There is no way you can even run that many trains per hour in the first place 

[jasonbxny0619]

For the shutdown there's a chance that the will go to 96th Street via the 2nd Avenue line or to it's weekday terminus that is Forest Hills-71st Avenue, obviously we will have the B39 in steroids, Ferry service between 20th Street and Williamsburg, both M14 converted in to SBS, the M23 that by then will be SBS, free out-of-system transfer between Broadway & Lorimer Street , Junius Street & Livonia Avenue & full length cars on the , and there's a possibility of having out-of-system transfer between 7th Avenue-14th Street ,6th Avenue-14th Street & 8th Avenue-14th Street . But the shutdown won't happen until January 2019, more coming up 

[MysteriousBtrain]

Venturi and ReThink Studio propose an extension of the E train into Brooklyn via the existing A/C tunnel, then along the Court Square-bound G tracks by adding in a rail switch at the Hoyt-Schermerhorn station.

Nope. Impossible. You can't fit all the 8 Av trains in the cranberry. Plus, Building a crossover just for the to access the . And the worst part? The is going to Court Sq. Bedford-Nostrand makes more sense, but even then, nope, can't fit the into Brooklyn.

[R32 3838]

The only lines that are seeing an increase are the and trains. Any leftover rolling stock from the will go to the and lines while the goes full length

[Porter]

Does this mean that the hipsters will stay in Brooklyn for 18 months?

 

I'm just being optimistic here.

[NY1635]

This: http://qns.com/story/2016/07/25/design-studio-proposes-e-train-extension-to-alleviate-negative-effects-of-the-18-month-l-train-shutdown/

 

The already connects to the at Court Square and the at Sutphin and Parsons. What good would extending it into Brooklyn along the Crosstown tunnels via Cranberry would do?

[Lance]

This: http://qns.com/story/2016/07/25/design-studio-proposes-e-train-extension-to-alleviate-negative-effects-of-the-18-month-l-train-shutdown/

I don't believe there is enough clearance to add a switch there. From west to east, the Crosstown line dips below the eastern Fulton St tracks in order to meet them at Hoyt-Schermerhorn. Leaving the station eastbound, the tracks once again run beneath the Manhattan/Court St-bound tracks to head towards Lafayette Av. If I'm not mistaken, the only place the Fulton St and Crosstown tracks are completely level with each other is at the station itself. I could be wrong though.

 

Is there enough rolling stock to support this?

Nope.

 

Nope. Impossible. You can't fit all the 8 Av trains in the cranberry. Plus, Building a crossover just for the to access the . And the worst part? The is going to Court Sq. Bedford-Nostrand makes more sense, but even then, nope, can't fit the into Brooklyn.

This. Even if I am wrong about the relative track levels, fitting all three 8th Avenue lines through the Cranberry tubes will be almost impossible.

 

 

The already connects to the at Court Square and the at Sutphin and Parsons. What good would extending it into Brooklyn along the Crosstown tunnels via Cranberry would do?

Also this. While this proposed extension offers a direct Manhattan connection from the Crosstown line, the roundabout nature of it makes it less enticing for the average rider, even during the Canarsie East River tubes shutdown.

[Future ENY OP]

For service to Manhattan a few L trains can go via the J line

 

8th ave (A,C,E)

 

transfer at Fulton st for uptown A,C trains to 14 st

 

6th ave (1,2,3,F,M)

 

transfer at Fulton st for uptown 2,3 trains to 14 st

Or

Transfer at Essex st for uptown F,M trains to 14 st

 

14 st union square

 

(4,5,6,N,Q,R)

Transfer st Brookyln bridge city hall or canal st for 4,5,6 for uptown to 14st

Or

Transfer at canal st for N,Q,R for uptown to 14 st

 

3rd and 1st ave(m15sbs)

 

transfer at Essex st for uptown m15 sbs to 14 st

 

 

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I'm usually on the bus end of things. However, I've reading some of these comments and this one here blows. The LAST thing I would do is put the on the J/Z line. You are talking about too much traffic between East New York and Broad Street. You are talking about significant signal trouble especially on a 100+ year old system.

 

The MTA did the right thing by doing the 18 month closure. However, no train re-routes. Williamsburg to Canarsie is good enough. Just increase more headways on the lines.

[S78 via Hylan]

I'd rather the go seven days a week to 71 Av than 96 St to avoid confusion by having another terminal.

[Around the Horn]

I'd rather the go seven days a week to 71 Av than 96 St to avoid confusion by having another terminal.

That isn't possible because of CBTC work.

 

 

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[S78 via Hylan]

That isn't possible because of CBTC work.

 

 

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You never know, they could put the CBTC work on hold.

[Wallyhorse]

 

The full closure is the more efficient solution, since the extra train cars can be used for the other lines. Morevoer, a lot of upgrades can be implemented simultaneously: additional exits at 1st and Bedford Aves to improve bottlenecks there, plus an upgrade of the power system to allow for up to 6 tph more during rush hour (30 percent capacity increase).

 

How would I redirect riders during the shutdown:

1. Run the maximum amount of service. 24/7 Manhattan service, terminate at 57 Av during non-weekdays.
2. 24/7 bus bridge from Delancey / Essex to Williamsburg (Bedford Ave).
3. Lengthen the to accommodate transfers at Metropolitan - Lorimer. The should be able to handle the transfers at Court Sq.

 

As said before, I would handle the by splitting it into and , with the being what it is now and the being 5-6 TPH weekdays and 6-9 TPH weekends (except late nights when it would be 3-4 TPH) to 96th and 2nd.  This might be enough to appease the Manhattan Borough President plus you have the problem of CBTC work going on weekends on Queens Boulevard that has been well documented preventing the from going on QB on many weekends.

For service to Manhattan a few L trains can go via the J line

 

8th ave (A,C,E)

 

transfer at Fulton st for uptown A,C trains to 14 st

 

6th ave (1,2,3,F,M)

 

transfer at Fulton st for uptown 2,3 trains to 14 st

Or

Transfer at Essex st for uptown F,M trains to 14 st

 

14 st union square

 

(4,5,6,N,Q,R)

Transfer st Brookyln bridge city hall or canal st for 4,5,6 for uptown to 14st

Or

Transfer at canal st for N,Q,R for uptown to 14 st

 

3rd and 1st ave(m15sbs)

 

transfer at Essex st for uptown m15 sbs to 14 st

 

 

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I've brought up this idea before in my ideas for a new line.  Obviously, this would not be every train, but maybe 3-5 TPH at rush hours could work.

[Around the Horn]

And as we've said before, that won't work...

 

 

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[MTA Bus]

I knew the MTA was going to do the 18 month option from the start. The 3 year plan would have backfired on them if they actually did it. 

[Eric B]

Yeah, there's no real benefit to the other plan at all. Now, it's nice to be able to hop on an and be in Manhattan in 25 minutes. Under that oither plan, you wouldn't even be able to simply change across the platform to continue; they would end the through at Lorimer, to prevent crowding at BEdford, and you would have to get on a shuttle bus for that one stop, then get back on, and wait who knows how long for the single track tunnel shuttle. For all of that, you might as well have the tunnel closed, and take the shuttle bus at Bedford straight into Manhattan. Or better yet, go another way altogether.

So it's like the same headache, in double the time!

 

The only benefit was service along 14th St. and more directly across the river, but again, with single tracking, and IIRC, 25min. or so headways, it really isn;t much benefit at all. The M14 would still be more crowded.

[46Dover]

I can't say I'm surprised by the move. Most riders and MTA officials were leaning towards the 18-month approach from the start. It allows for the work to be done without train service impeding on the progress. Which is part of the reason why there cannot be any service between 1 Avenue and 8 Avenue. The other, more pressing reason why there can't be any service under the full-closure option is there is absolutely no way to maintain the cars needed for service. The Canarsie line has only one track connection to the rest of the system and that's at Broadway Junction. With both East River tunnels closed, the cars will have no way to get to and from the Manhattan side to the Brooklyn side. And no, they cannot build a small maintenance facility somewhere along the Manhattan segment of the line. There's no room.

 

There's no way to have it both ways. You cannot have a shortened time-span for the closure while retaining service on the western portion. It's either 18-months with no service west of Bedford Av or three years with extremely limited service between 8 Avenue and Bedford Av. In my opinion, the MTA chose wisely.

Sounds like the cooperation from passengers affected (for the most part) was pretty good

[TheNewYorkElevated]

Sounds like the cooperation from passengers affected (for the most part) was pretty good

You could tell too. From the start, the commuters were leaning for what the was going for (which is good).