Announcement NYCT Bus orders through 2019

[East New York]

East New York will clear this up eventually and they updated the list.

http://web.mta.info/capital/pdf/Board_2015-2019_Capital_Program.pdf#page=213

 

Btw it creates more questions than answers.

 

The link you posted is not an update. That's about 90 days old. I never posted that one because I was informed it would change. As of right now they are still in the planning stages of everything. The procurement I posted reflects current numbers with the exception of the artic order, which has changed for the 7th time now. 

 

Here is a breakdown of everything by timeline. I'm going to make it a little more detailed on the first page of this thread, which will be updated by 9pm.

 

• The 190 Diesel Artics, and 110 CNG Artics have nothing to do with the 231 (plus 300 options) that will be awarded now. 
• More options are to be exercised off the remaining 628 options before years end.
• The 138 CNG order is up next for award now.
• It now looks as if MTA may opt to NOT have options for 125 additional CNG 40 footers to go along with the base order that's pending and replace them with 110 artics.   
• East New York Depot will be modified to handle articulated buses immediately, and is currently undergoing extensive rehabs and will soon begin construction of the new merged operations NYCTA/MaBSTOA/MTABC Command Center.
• Grand Avenue Depot will be modified to handle artics by 2017. 

 

Has there been any word on what routes in Gleason may get them?

 

Word is the B35 will get them unless MTA decides to change plans and send them all to West Farms. 

 

New Flyer may just have to lowball an order like MTA's since they've been losing orders to Nova, like Chicago's 300-some.

I've always questioned the LFS/A service life.  New Flyers are pretty tough buses, similar to the old RTSes, and in fact Chicago is overhauling their whole NFI fleet with around 10 years on them to keep them in service until the Novas get rolled in.  And if they do it right, they should get another 5 years work out of them.

Volvo must be alright with them, though.  Always thought they'd drop those and bring the "global" Volvo buses stateside.

 

That's actually not quite accurate my man. Nova's design is solid, as well as proven. Its based of the same stainless design philosophy of the RTS, as Nova produced both buses at the same time. I had a personal look into the final decision by CTA.

 

Millennium Transit Services was the lowest bidder.(RTS Extreme)

New Flyer of America was the second lowest bidder.(XD40)

NovaBus was the highest bidder.(LFS)

 

They originally said they would put all options on the table from a sole-source to a split between all three. The board made a unanimous decision to go with Nova for a few reasons. One to give them a bit of footing in the U.S. Market 2 the RTS was evaluated knowing that the front door was the worse on their old RTS models, and there is only a prototype for a new door, and no actual model in service. 3 the XD was a new platform uncommon to the LF's. The final decision rested on the fact that CTA's first LFS buses held up quite well, have common parts which will automatically level out maintenance costs and on hand parts inventory. Basically, it was the only platform being offered that was already 12 years minimum proven. The RTS Extreme platform (same structure as the MTS highfloor) will not be 12 years proven until 2017-2018. The Xcelsior won't hit that mark until 2020. (Note: MTS is still operational and has NOT gone out of business even though they are not currently producing any buses.)

 

This is very similar to why MTA is the ONLY agency in world with new gen C40LF's. The LF platform in my opinion is much more tough than that of the Xcelsior, which is an all new platform. Therefore all the buses you reference as being "tough similar to the RTS" are no longer being manufactured. 

 

The LFS on the other hand is more than 20 years proven now.

[BDNQ2345]

What about hybrid bus it gonna be xde40 or LFS hex and where going to put those buses?

[MysteriousBtrain]

What about hybrid bus it gonna be xde40 or LFS hex and where going to put those buses?

Model not known at the time, but the hybrids are likely to go to MHV and QV to replace the Gen I VIIs.

[limitednyc]

What's the story with the 40ft option of the current order,

[DetSMART45]

.....

 

That's actually not quite accurate my man. Nova's design is solid, as well as proven. Its based of the same stainless design philosophy of the RTS, as Nova produced both buses at the same time. I had a personal look into the final decision by CTA.

 

Millennium Transit Services was the lowest bidder.(RTS Extreme)

New Flyer of America was the second lowest bidder.(XD40)

NovaBus was the highest bidder.(LFS)

 

They originally said they would put all options on the table from a sole-source to a split between all three. The board made a unanimous decision to go with Nova for a few reasons. One to give them a bit of footing in the U.S. Market 2 the RTS was evaluated knowing that the front door was the worse on their old RTS models, and there is only a prototype for a new door, and no actual model in service. 3 the XD was a new platform uncommon to the LF's. The final decision rested on the fact that CTA's first LFS buses held up quite well, have common parts which will automatically level out maintenance costs and on hand parts inventory. Basically, it was the only platform being offered that was already 12 years minimum proven. The RTS Extreme platform (same structure as the MTS highfloor) will not be 12 years proven until 2017-2018. The Xcelsior won't hit that mark until 2020. (Note: MTS is still operational and has NOT gone out of business even though they are not currently producing any buses.)

 

This is very similar to why MTA is the ONLY agency in world with new gen C40LF's. The LF platform in my opinion is much more tough than that of the Xcelsior, which is an all new platform. Therefore all the buses you reference as being "tough similar to the RTS" are no longer being manufactured. 

 

The LFS on the other hand is more than 20 years proven now.

Alright, let me pick your brain while I've got you here:

--So the Excelsior is "completely" new?  Thought that was built on the old chassis/frame, like the old low-floors.

 

--The Nova never hit it with me, especially given that their primary market was Canadian TAs (and looks to me a bit too "Canadian", but neither here nor there) -- thus, especially eastern TAs went with Novas and western with NFIs because of Winnipeg.  Even locally, Transit Windsor has a good split between Orion VI/VII and NFI with Novas bringing up the rear with all 2005 models and nothing newer.  Bringing this up because Transit Windsor grinds out absolutely the MOST use out of their fleet before replacing (they've got MCI Classics still out, whether they're doing daily runs or not, I don't know, but I'd surmise they are since not all scheduled service is Canadian ADA-equivalent accessible).  Point is: TW is your grandfather who would run the vehicle until the doors fell off and only then opt to buy a new vehicle -- so if a Canadian TA is not completely "sold" on Nova from 2005 onward, and opts for NFI, must be something beyond a great price quote behind it.  (Remember, too -- TW had GM/Nova Classics being most of their fleet prior to NFI coming in, so cost savings is paramount, yet that must have not been a major concern.)  Those interested, fleet detail is here: http://www.citywindsor.ca/residents/transitwindsor/Corporate-and-Contact-Information/Pages/Vehicle-Inventory.aspx

 

--How long have the original LFS/As been in service in MTA-treatment?  Have they been to the 10-year point where an overhaul would extend life-cycle to at least close to the 20 years of its predecessor?  Any other TAs running anywhere close to MTA durability who've done something as such to make judgments by?  For a fleet swap-out like Chicago's I don't really think they're looking at the complete picture, but more like relying on the FTA's "guidelines" of buying new buses once 500,000/12-years (or close to it) hits without them paying the full freight.

 

Thanks in advance.

[Around the Horn]

--How long have the original LFS/As been in service in MTA-treatment?  Have they been to the 10-year point where an overhaul would extend life-cycle to at least close to the 20 years of its predecessor?  Any other TAs running anywhere close to MTA durability who've done something as such to make judgments by?  For a fleet swap-out like Chicago's I don't really think they're looking at the complete picture, but more like relying on the FTA's "guidelines" of buying new buses once 500,000/12-years (or close to it) hits without them paying the full freight.

 

 

Thanks in advance.

I want to say the LFSA first came in 2008-9...

I know that LFS's debuted in 2011.Still remember the reaction from me and my classmates when the first one on the B64 pulled up to the stop that one Friday.The senior citizens were congratulating the bus driver!

[Via Garibaldi 8]

Still remember the reaction from me and my classmates when the first one on the B64 pulled up to the stop that one Friday.The senior citizens were congratulating the bus driver!

They were probably so depressed with those worn out RTS buses that they thought he stole the bus from some other depot. lol  I remember when those RTS' came into service out of Ulmer Park... I was a barely a teen at that time.  Goes to show you how long those buses have been around.

[Blitz]

I want to say the LFSA first came in 2008-9...

I know that LFS's debuted in 2011.Still remember the reaction from me and my classmates when the first one on the B64 pulled up to the stop that one Friday.The senior citizens were congratulating the bus driver!

The 12xx nova artics came in 2010

[Around the Horn]

They were probably so depressed with those worn out RTS buses that they thought he stole the bus from some other depot. lol  I remember when those RTS' came into service out of Ulmer Park... I was a barely a teen at that time.  Goes to show you how long those buses have been around.

Yes he got that reaction too...

 

The 12xx nova artics came in 2010

Well then...

[MysteriousBtrain]

Here is a breakdown of everything by timeline. I'm going to make it a little more detailed on the first page of this thread, which will be updated by 9pm.

 

• The 190 Diesel Artics, and 110 CNG Artics have nothing to do with the 231 (plus 300 options) that will be awarded now.
• More options are to be exercised off the remaining 628 options before years end.
• The 138 CNG order is up next for award now.
• It now looks as if MTA may opt to NOT have options for 125 additional CNG 40 footers to go along with the base order that's pending and replace them with 110 artics.
• East New York Depot will be modified to handle articulated buses immediately, and is currently undergoing extensive rehabs and will soon begin construction of the new merged operations NYCTA/MaBSTOA/MTABC Command Center.
• Grand Avenue Depot will be modified to handle artics by 2017.

So from what I understand, the artics are as following:

The 231 main order plus 300 options artics

190 diesel units that will be awarded after the 531 buses are delivered

110 CNGs for WF, JG, and possibly CP that may replace the 125 option 40 ft CNGs

I want to say the LFSA first came in 2008-9...

I know that LFS's debuted in 2011.Still remember the reaction from me and my classmates when the first one on the B64 pulled up to the stop that one Friday.The senior citizens were congratulating the bus driver!

You're thinking of the demo that was delivered before the 1200s I believe.

[KingNas]

Noticed the mention of grand getting artic renovations....

 

What route do they really have over there that'd require them? 47? 60?

[Future ENY OP]

Noticed the mention of grand getting artic renovations....

 

What route do they really have over there that'd require them? 47? 60?

Could be the B38. 47 and 60 don't really warrant artic status.

[KingNas]

They split 38 with fresh pond. They only have half the route, unless they plan on making the local and Ltd come out of GA...

 

Unless they trade the 46 for the 47 (O_o)

[Metro CSW]

They split 38 with fresh pond. They only have half the route, unless they plan on making the local and Ltd come out of GA...

Unless they trade the 46 for the 47 (O_o)

GA doesn't need send off a route because a new fleet said to coming in. It's the renovation stage. The artics hasn't landed into Grand Avenue yet so it pretty much too early to say which route can receive artics yet. I don't think any of routes at GA need to be moved out, IMO. I mean, they can keep the split either way or the 38 can fully operate from GA, I don't think it will matter much.

[Future ENY OP]

They split 38 with fresh pond. They only have half the route, unless they plan on making the local and Ltd come out of GA...

 

Unless they trade the 46 for the 47 (O_o)

 

I don't think that would happen. Just leave the routes as is.

[MysteriousBtrain]

Two updates from one of the latest MTA documents:

New Flyer wins the CNG order of 138 buses. New flyer will deliver 5 pilots in September 2016, with the other 133 buses being delivered between March 2017-September 2017.

Prevost will deliver 1537 express buses to both MTA and NYCT bus. There will be 91 units to MTA and 1446 for NYCT.

[LegoBrickBreaker101]

Two updates from one of the latest MTA documents:

New Flyer wins the CNG order of 138 buses. New flyer will deliver 5 pilots in September 2016, with the other 133 buses being delivered between March 2017-September 2017.

Prevost will deliver 1537 express buses to both MTA and NYCT bus. There will be 91 units to MTA and 1446 for NYCT.

 

Damn, 1537 buses... replacing all the MCIs and fleet expansion? That seems like a lot...

[Blitz]

Damn, 1537 buses... replacing all the MCIs and fleet expansion? That seems like a lot...

1537 doesn't sound right. I think theres less than 1500 express buses (prevost and mci) in total.

[R179 8258]

Two updates from one of the latest MTA documents:

New Flyer wins the CNG order of 138 buses. New flyer will deliver 5 pilots in September 2016, with the other 133 buses being delivered between March 2017-September 2017.

Prevost will deliver 1537 express buses to both MTA and NYCT bus. There will be 91 units to MTA and 1446 for NYCT.

The New Flyer order is gonna XD or something different

[MysteriousBtrain]

1537 doesn't sound right. I think theres less than 1500 express buses (prevost and mci) in total.

I think you are right. Here's what I read when I saw the express part:

Now that I think about it, I'm not sure what this section really means...

The New Flyer order is gonna XD or something different

It should be XN40 buses that will be delivered in this order.

[Cait Sith]

Two updates from one of the latest MTA documents:

New Flyer wins the CNG order of 138 buses. New flyer will deliver 5 pilots in September 2016, with the other 133 buses being delivered between March 2017-September 2017.

Prevost will deliver 1537 express buses to both MTA and NYCT bus. There will be 91 units to MTA and 1446 for NYCT.

Nope, you misread that.

 

The parts order is to provide parts for 1,537 Volvo branded buses (1446 combined Nova/Prevosts buses(including the RTS) for NYCT and 91 NovaBus RTSs for MTA Bus).

 

There's roughly about 90/100 RTS buses left at MTA Bus. And NYCT does have almost a combined total of 1,450 volvo brand buses when you include the RTS.

 

There has not been an added RFP for any manufacturer to deliver over 1,000 express buses.

[MysteriousBtrain]

Nope, you misread that.

 

The parts order is to PROVIDE parts for 1,537 Volvo branded buses (1446 combined Nova/Prevosts buses(including the RTS) for NYCT and 91 NovaBus RTSs for MTA Bus

Oh I see thanks for clearing it up. I saw another post in the random thoughts thread and I was like "Prevosts for MTABC? Unbelievable!!!!"

What's funny is that it is unbelievable, but in a different way

[Fresh Pond]

The New Flyer order is gonna XD or something different

Its a CNG order, so it will be XN40s

[MTA Orion Bus]

If Orion was still around, I could only imagine how many of these orders they would be getting from the MTA. Orion 3G CNGs under MTA maintenance would have looked great. NICE is destroying theirs.

[Far rockaway]

Once Baisley Park depot get's their XD60'S, they will send their hybrids to JFK. Is that still true?